Crusader Arms Crypto

The law states that any rifle or shotgun that isn't restricted or prohibited is non-restricted. Non-restricted is therefore a classification by exclusion. They define restricted and prohibited classification by characteristics/features of firearms.

According to the law, if your rifle or shotgun does not have the characteristics/features that would make it restricted or prohibited, it is non-restricted.

The issue at hand stems from last inclusion criterion for prohibited: "Firearms prescribed to be prohibited firearms in the Regulations".

More recently, the Firearms Lab adapted this last point to include "variants" of "Firearms prescribed to be prohibited firearms in the Regulations", which is how they decided to capture the MS and RSQ1 (and others...). The Valmet is an interesting exception, as one would reasonably conclude that Valmets are "variants" of the AK platform (RPK, AKM, etc.) and yet they are NOT prohibited.

They haven't defined what a "variant" is, so they've decided that they will label whatever they'd like as a variant without any consistency or rules.

I suspect the Crypto will get labelled a "variant" whenever the Firearms Lab gets their order. How enforceable is this? Consider how little the average LEO knows about firearms. If you showed them semi-auto UMP45, PS90, MP7, TP9, 1919A4, MG42 do you think they'd believe they were legal to own in Canada? What if you had non-restricted versions and you encountered a fish cop in the boonies? I think you'd get your gun confiscated and then would have to work through the courts to get your stuff back (hopefully). The same is probably going to happen with a Crypto.

We need a change in laws in our favour to clarify and get rid of the ambiguity of the current laws and establish what IS and ISN'T allowed. Something that is easily decided based on directly measurable characteristics of the firearm, not someone's opinion about whether or not two distinct firearms share some historical lineage through their design.
 
misterplinker1 said:
More recently, the Firearms Lab adapted this last point to include "variants" of "Firearms prescribed to be prohibited firearms in the Regulations", which is how they decided to capture the MS and RSQ1 (and others...). The Valmet is an interesting exception, as one would reasonably conclude that Valmets are "variants" of the AK platform (RPK, AKM, etc.) and yet they are NOT prohibited.
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A few points.

First, the Valmet IS an AK variant. It is exempted though.

From "Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted
SOR/98-462"

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 13​

  • 64The firearm of the design commonly known as the AK-47 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it except for the Valmet Hunter, the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78 rifles, but including the
    • (a) AK-74;
    • (b) AK Hunter;
    • (c) AKM;.....
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Second, Variant is not at all a new term and its use to ban stuff is not new, as seen above. The AK was banned in the early 90s, so they've been using "variant" to ban stuff for decades at this point - it literally predates The Firearms Act. Another example of this would be the the Blaze47, a Mossberg Blaze rifle that is banned for looking too much like an AK. There are two versions of the blaze rifle, the "regular" one with a more traditional looking black plastic stock is an NR, while the one that looks like an AK is an AK variant and thus banned, and it was banned years before the May 2020 OiC.

If you showed them semi-auto UMP45, PS90, MP7, TP9, 1919A4, MG42 do you think they'd believe they were legal to own in Canada? What if you had non-restricted versions and you encountered a fish cop in the boonies? I think you'd get your gun confiscated and then would have to work through the courts to get your stuff back (hopefully). The same is probably going to happen with a Crypto.
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Except all those guns have NR FRT entries, so AT MOST you'd get your guns taken by a cop who doesn't know better, and then get them returned at the police station when they realize they were taken for no reason. The chances of you having to go to court to get the police to return a gun that was seized erroneously because the cop THOUGHT it wasn't legal to own is VERY low.

The Crypto, without an FRT, is a whole other ball game though. That very well could require a fight in court, and at the end of the fight you might still have your gun taken away AND then you get to go back to court, this time to fight prohibited weapons charges.
 
Suther said:
A few points.

First, the Valmet IS an AK variant. It is exempted though.

From "Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted
SOR/98-462"


Second, Variant is not at all a new term and its use to ban stuff is not new, as seen above. The AK was banned in the early 90s, so they've been using "variant" to ban stuff for decades at this point - it literally predates The Firearms Act. Another example of this would be the the Blaze47, a Mossberg Blaze rifle that is banned for looking too much like an AK. There are two versions of the blaze rifle, the "regular" one with a more traditional looking black plastic stock is an NR, while the one that looks like an AK is an AK variant and thus banned, and it was banned years before the May 2020 OiC.



Except all those guns have NR FRT entries, so AT MOST you'd get your guns taken by a cop who doesn't know better, and then get them returned at the police station when they realize they were taken for no reason. The chances of you having to go to court to get the police to return a gun that was seized erroneously because the cop THOUGHT it wasn't legal to own is VERY low.

The Crypto, without an FRT, is a whole other ball game though. That very well could require a fight in court, and at the end of the fight you might still have your gun taken away AND then you get to go back to court, this time to fight prohibited weapons charges.
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Maybe you could point me to where they define "variant" as I had a hard time coming up with anything. My point was that it was unusual that the Valmets had an exception but didn't define what differed between them and other variants. Other than name. I understand there's a story about how long ago Valmets were given by the gooberment to some Indigenous groups and so they had to carve them out as an exception when AKs were prohibited.
 
misterplinker1 said:
Maybe you could point me to where they define "variant" as I had a hard time coming up with anything. My point was that it was unusual that the Valmets had an exception but didn't define what differed between them and other variants. Other than name. I understand there's a story about how long ago Valmets were given by the gooberment to some Indigenous groups and so they had to carve them out as an exception when AKs were prohibited.
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You are correct in that variant is undefined. That is on purpose. If you define it, then people can use that definition to create something that isn't covered - just like the Crypto is doing with regards to the new prohib definition and greater than 5 round magazines.

I've heard about that govt giving Valmets to indegenous groups claim, but I've never seen evidence to support it. Just talk on internet forums.

And the Valmets are not different from the other variants. That is why they are specifically named as not being prohibited. They absolutely ARE AK variants, and would be illegal otherwise.
 
Suther said:
I've heard about that govt giving Valmets to indegenous groups claim, but I've never seen evidence to support it. Just talk on internet forums.
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I think I went down this rabbit hole once and saw a breakdown with dates of shipment of Valmets and ammo and then how they banned ALL AK variants first and then exempted Valmets almost immediately and so on... but I can't find it now, I recall it was a fascinating story and typical Lib gov "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
 
I get it that a lot of folks are “gun shy” lol….
Food for thought; four years ago a small company in AB copied a NR AR design and sold 500 copies. Just think, the people who got said parts built rifles with their banned parts and competed at the local range while others had to use 180’s and crap wanna be’s.
It wasn’t fair at times 🤣.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Maybe crusader is betting that the libs get tossed and the 1-2 year delay at the lab will fill this gap and PP takes immediate action??
Maybe crusader wants them to classify as anything other than NR to take them to task to test c21 as it meets the definition?
Maybe they don’t care and just want to rip you off for giving you a finished/machined product for $900 that has $250 in raw materials?
Who knows.
Life’s short, enjoy the sport of shooting with your friends and loved ones…we are a dying breed.
I have no doubt that you’ll enjoy your new rifles.
PS>> MRA has lightweight fluted stainless 18.5” barrels.
 
Babs0404 said:
I get it that a lot of folks are “gun shy” lol….
Food for thought; four years ago a small company in AB copied a NR AR design and sold 500 copies. Just think, the people who got said parts built rifles with their banned parts and competed at the local range while others had to use 180’s and crap wanna be’s.
It wasn’t fair at times 🤣.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Maybe crusader is betting that the libs get tossed and the 1-2 year delay at the lab will fill this gap and PP takes immediate action??
Maybe crusader wants them to classify as anything other than NR to take them to task to test c21 as it meets the definition?
Maybe they don’t care and just want to rip you off for giving you a finished/machined product for $900 that has $250 in raw materials?
Who knows.
Life’s short, enjoy the sport of shooting with your friends and loved ones…we are a dying breed.
I have no doubt that you’ll enjoy your new rifles.
PS>> MRA has lightweight fluted stainless 18.5” barrels.
Click to expand...
We're not a dying breed though. Number of Canadians with a PAL has steadily increased in the last decade, with 2023 setting a record for most PALs. Since 2009 the number of PALs has decreased year over year only once, and in total we've added about half a million PAL holders in that 15 year period - that's nearly a 30% increase over 15 years.

Despite the Liberals best efforts, we're not going anywhere anytime soon.
 
Babs0404 said:
Food for thought; four years ago a small company in AB copied a NR AR design and sold 500 copies. Just think, the people who got said parts built rifles with their banned parts and competed at the local range while others had to use 180’s and crap wanna be’s.
It wasn’t fair at times 🤣.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Click to expand...

Those Sterling Arms rifles have since been marked prohib in the FRT (after the OIC of course).

Same thing will happen to the Crypto once the horsemen generate an FRT number for it.
 
So they sell the Crypto receiver sets with the intention that a buyer would swap all the parts off their AR15 onto the new receiver set.
Most AR15's have barrels less then 18.5" meaning the individual would be requesting the CFP that it be registered.
No FRT # yet, so no registration possible until a FRT is created?
Maybe multiple registration requests will speed up the creation of a FRT # (and possible prohibition)?
 
Colin L said:
So they sell the Crypto receiver sets with the intention that a buyer would swap all the parts off their AR15 onto the new receiver set.
Most AR15's have barrels less then 18.5" meaning the individual would be requesting the CFP that it be registered.
No FRT # yet, so no registration possible until a FRT is created?
Maybe multiple registration requests will speed up the creation of a FRT # (and possible prohibition)?
Click to expand...
Lots of people have 18.5"+ AR barrels due to the variety of NR guns using AR barrels. Once the AR15 got banned a lot of people were not willing to buy or build a replacement that was registered.
 
Colin L said:
So they sell the Crypto receiver sets with the intention that a buyer would swap all the parts off their AR15 onto the new receiver set.
Most AR15's have barrels less then 18.5" meaning the individual would be requesting the CFP that it be registered.
No FRT # yet, so no registration possible until a FRT is created?
Maybe multiple registration requests will speed up the creation of a FRT # (and possible prohibition)?
Click to expand...
I don't know about most AR-15s having under 18 1/2" barrels. The standard AR-15 has a 20" barrel. There are many shorties, of course.
If someone puts together a shorty on the Crypto receiver, and applies to register it, a restricted FRT entry would have to be created.
Here is another twist - if the receiver set is sold as n-r, and a short barrel installed, is the assembler manufacturing a restricted firearm?
 
Here is another twist - if the receiver set is sold as n-r, and a short barrel installed, is the assembler manufacturing a restricted firearm?
Click to expand...

You can restrict and de-restrict various rifles repeatedly. You aren't manufacturing anything.
 
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