Lockhart renegade semi auto conversion

Hoppka47 said:
I think they were banned for appearance. The law is about stopping a culture of people building a hobby around assault style rifles. They dont want it to be normal and accepted in canadian society.

respect the state!
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Someone should introduce a semi that's only available in pink with frills, anime-style or nerf-style or whatever, so that none may call it assault-style without getting hooted down.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
But if you make this particular rifle into a semi-auto;
The RCMP will simply reclassify it as an AR-15, and it will be gone.
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I would like to see how that goes in court. I'm not sure the law has any provision for banning something that was manufactured legal and then modified to illegal by a third party. Sure, the modified thing could be declared as illegal and banned, but I'm not sure that could be extended to the original legal item.

As dfritter1 says, that would lead to a very interesting lawsuit.

FrancoisG3784 said:
the problem is that the term “Variant” is too vaguely worded which allows them to interpret it however they want to
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It's not just vaguely worded, it is completely undefined. And that's not by accident, as you note.

taeish said:
Beat me to it. Wanted to run stripped down 9mm bolt as pcc and hoped nobody else would do it to fly under the radar
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Did you ever get one running as a PCC? I like the idea as well, just to stick a finger in the eye of the feds if nothing else.


Mark
 
mmattockx said:
I would like to see how that goes in court. I'm not sure the law has any provision for banning something that was manufactured legal and then modified to illegal by a third party. Sure, the modified thing could be declared as illegal and banned, but I'm not sure that could be extended to the original legal item.
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That's not how this works. Semi-auto isn't automatically illegal, and as long as it meets the OAL and barrel length requirements, it's technically turning something legal into something else legal, with the latter having an almost 100% chance of being banned at a later time, with the former not long after as it can be used to enable the latter.
 
DVX said:
In other words, the Renegade is about to be banned because it "can be converted to a weapon of war designed for the battlefield". Good job Lockheart... I'll add you to the list of places I'll never purchase from.
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Poor logic. If Lockhart can do it anyone can, and it already existed in a state of "can be converted".

Trying to appease the state is an exercise in futility.
 
DVX said:
That's not how this works. Semi-auto isn't automatically illegal, and as long as it meets the OAL and barrel length requirements, it's technically turning something legal into something else legal, with the latter having an almost 100% chance of being banned at a later time, with the former not long after as it can be used to enable the latter.
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So what makes it illegal? An updated FRT?
 
DVX said:
That's not how this works. Semi-auto isn't automatically illegal, and as long as it meets the OAL and barrel length requirements, it's technically turning something legal into something else legal, with the latter having an almost 100% chance of being banned at a later time, with the former not long after as it can be used to enable the latter.
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I'm well aware that's not how it works, I was responding to Dexter Morgan who thinks that is how it works.


Mark
 
DVX said:
In other words, the Renegade is about to be banned because it "can be converted to a weapon of war designed for the battlefield". Good job Lockheart... I'll add you to the list of places I'll never purchase from.
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Ohhhhh I see....so its the government that bans things, but you take it out on manufacturers as if they were your enemy.

Good job DVX.

Guess which list you've yourself just been added to?
 
Lockhart-
Just to confirm

we're still trying to work things out with the govt.

We are NOT offering any service at this exact moment, and we will not do unless we receive 100% confirmation from them about this.

That was there msg to me. Lets see how that goes…… Hopefully a canadian company makes a semi auto hunting rifle so we aint buying the Alcor with a facelift.
 
LumberJack13 said:
Lockhart-
Just to confirm

we're still trying to work things out with the govt.

We are NOT offering any service at this exact moment, and we will not do unless we receive 100% confirmation from them about this.

That was there msg to me. Lets see how that goes…… Hopefully a canadian company makes a semi auto hunting rifle so we aint buying the Alcor with a facelift.
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Likely won't go any further. Due to those that designed it said it be unsafe if modified.

And who would get the blame? MRA because was their gun, even though it was modifed by someone else.
 
LumberJack13 said:
Lockhart-
Just to confirm

we're still trying to work things out with the govt.

We are NOT offering any service at this exact moment, and we will not do unless we receive 100% confirmation from them about this.

That was there msg to me. Lets see how that goes…… Hopefully a canadian company makes a semi auto hunting rifle so we aint buying the Alcor with a facelift.
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I received a similar message from Lockhart and posted it here in this thread a few pages back.

I see both sides of the argument ("for" - innovation and keeping semi-auto centrefire rifles available to the Canadian public / "against" - modifying someone else's product and risking it getting banned for everyone else who may not even be interested in a conversion), and thus I guess I'm (true to my Ontarian heritage) a bit of a fence-sitter.

But where I'm pretty cheesed with Lockhart is how they'd go and announce something (especially in the way they did; see attached picture, taken from Reddit r/CanadaGuns) when they haven't even figured out all the details yet...

lockhart_MRA.JPG

This makes it sound like they've already done the legwork and are ready to start accepting orders for this service.
Regardless if I want to convert a Renegade to semi or not, if they can't come through with it at this point, it certainly is a mismanagement of my expectations on their part.
 
OkayShooter said:
Likely won't go any further. Due to those that designed it said it be unsafe if modified.

And who would get the blame? MRA because was their gun, even though it was modifed by someone else.
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The RCMP was very close to banning the SKS because people weren't cleaning their guns and they were slam firing and mag dumping. It's not full auto by design, but it's "capable"

The fact that Lockheart claims it's "capable" will be of great consideration to the gun labs. Sure Lockheart may not be doing it, but knowing "bad guys can do it" (no matter the level of expertise and skill they may need to get it done) is usually enough for them to slap it with the ban hammer...
 
DVX said:
The RCMP was very close to banning the SKS because people weren't cleaning their guns and they were slam firing and mag dumping. It's not full auto by design, but it's "capable"

The fact that Lockheart claims it's "capable" will be of great consideration to the gun labs. Sure Lockheart may not be doing it, but knowing "bad guys can do it" (no matter the level of expertise and skill they may need to get it done) is usually enough for them to slap it with the ban hammer...
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Exactly. Proves my point that "capable" exists outside of reality, but the SFSS will wield the vagueness of it against firearms owners regardless.
 
DVX said:
The RCMP was very close to banning the SKS because people weren't cleaning their guns and they were slam firing and mag dumping. It's not full auto by design, but it's "capable"

The fact that Lockheart claims it's "capable" will be of great consideration to the gun labs. Sure Lockheart may not be doing it, but knowing "bad guys can do it" (no matter the level of expertise and skill they may need to get it done) is usually enough for them to slap it with the ban hammer...
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Based on your logic, the Renegade should already be banned. Johnyy makes a good point about a possible conversion that makes it 'capable' of SA
Johnyy said:
You're telling me a bolt lock delete & a fat rubber band's not good nuff this whole time .. ? : P
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