Beam powder scales vs cheap digital scales vs powder scoop

Iloverevolvers said:
The problem with the Lee scoop that came with the kit is that it's too big (I think). I'll use the scoop to measure some Titegroup and dump it in on the scale's pan. If it's close to 3.2 grains it'll be a miracle.

But I also think that a DIY or even a small, typical kitchen measuring spoon may be something worth investigating. The scale can confirm its repeatability and, I hate to say the word, accuracy of whatever scoop is being tested.
Click to expand...
You can easily make a custom scoop by cutting down a cartridge case to hold the right amount of powder. Handles can be attached two part epoxy from the Dollar Store.

When you practice a bit, it's very possible to throw powder charges consistently plus/minus 1/10 grain.

Same goes for scoops, once you have one trimmed to hold the charge you want.

Just understand, powder charges will need to vary when anything changes, from primers, powder type, bullet weight/shape, and even different cases.
 
It's becoming clear to me, following this discussion - we all need magnetic levitating scales in order to avoid friction loss accuracy with the V-block system. (y)
 
bearhunter said:
You can easily make a custom scoop by cutting down a cartridge case to hold the right amount of powder. Handles can be attached two part epoxy from the Dollar Store.

When you practice a bit, it's very possible to throw powder charges consistently plus/minus 1/10 grain.

Same goes for scoops, once you have one trimmed to hold the charge you want.

Just understand, powder charges will need to vary when anything changes, from primers, powder type, bullet weight/shape, and even different cases.
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Thanks for the scoop advice.

About the part of your post that I emphasized, I can understand all of this for precision shooting (minimizing group size) at a relatively great distance. (In other words, the point of aim and the point of impact may change slightly or the group size increases or decreases slightly with one of those changes.) Using a different powder I can easily understand being extra vigilant. But if I've been loading 3.2 grains of Titegroup for many rounds and I start using a different brand small rifle primer and keep everything else the same, do you think that this single change is going to really make big changes at 40 yards? Surely nothing dangerous is going to happen, or am I wrong?

Thanks.
 
Iloverevolvers said:
Thanks for the scoop advice.

About the part of your post that I emphasized, I can understand all of this for precision shooting (minimizing group size) at a relatively great distance. (In other words, the point of aim and the point of impact may change slightly or the group size increases or decreases slightly with one of those changes.) Using a different powder I can easily understand being extra vigilant. But if I've been loading 3.2 grains of Titegroup for many rounds and I start using a different brand small rifle primer and keep everything else the same, do you think that this single change is going to really make big changes at 40 yards? Surely nothing dangerous is going to happen, or am I wrong?

Thanks.
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Changing from one primer brand to another, as long as they are the same size, would have little impact on anything at 40 yards.

R.
 
Heres the 100 all rolled up.
Before just throwing scoopfulls at them I did a sample of 20 scoops into the weighing pan ( 1 at a time 🤪 ) to see what was going in them and that they are within published load data.
Scoop used was lee 1.6cc scoop
Range: 25.1-25.5 most were 25.3 and 25.5 with a couple at 25.2 and one at 25.1
The weighed charges were all 25.3
Testing to be done tomorrow (Sunday)
Elevation roughly 1000m temp estimated at -2 c
range will be 100yds for 40 of each (10 rnd groups ) and the last 10 of each will be 200yds

Edit: some more data
Bullet-69gr SMK hpbt
Brass-LC (Lake City)
Primer-cci 400
Powder-CFE 223
Size-Fire formed, neck sized
Rifle-Tikka ACE Target
Cal-.223
Barrel-23.7”
Twist-1/8
IMG_5918.jpeg
 
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Ghillbert said:
Heres the 100 all rolled up.
Before just throwing scoopfulls at them I did a sample of 20 scoops into the weighing pan ( 1 at a time 🤪 ) to see what was going in them and that they are within published load data.
Scoop used was lee 1.6cc scoop
Range: 25.1-25.5 most were 25.3 and 25.5 with a couple at 25.2 and one at 25.1
The weighed charges were all 25.3
Testing to be done tomorrow (Sunday)
Elevation roughly 1000m temp estimated at -2 c
range will be 100yds for 40 of each (10 rnd groups ) and the last 10 of each will be 200yds

Edit: some more data
Bullet-69gr SMK hpbt
Brass-LC (Lake City)
Primer-cci 400
Powder-CFE 223
Size-Fire formed, neck sized
Rifle-Tikka ACE Target
Cal-.223
Barrel-23.7”
Twist-1/8
View attachment 1119605
Click to expand...
I look forward to reading your results. How much of the volume of the case do you think the 1.6ccs of powder used up?
 
Please forgive me for going off-topic a bit. Moderators please delete if I've gone too far.

I'm at the bullet/primer-buying stage. Are Campro Ginex 4,5/3-P3 small rifle primers suitable for 223 remington cases that are being re-primed using the Lee Loader Classic kit? I ask because Google AI cites sources that say that these can be more difficult to insert into the pocket than other brands of small rifle primers, and I'm thinking that hammering the case down onto a such a primer may produce a result that I would not appreciate. (What attracts me to this particular primer is that a box of 1000 of them can be bought relatively inexpensively. But if these are too dangerous, please recommend an inexpensive alternative.)

Thanks.
 
Iloverevolvers said:
Please forgive me for going off-topic a bit. Moderators please delete if I've gone too far.

I'm at the bullet/primer-buying stage. Are Campro Ginex 4,5/3-P3 small rifle primers suitable for 223 remington cases that are being re-primed using the Lee Loader Classic kit? I ask because Google AI cites sources that say that these can be more difficult to insert into the pocket than other brands of small rifle primers, and I'm thinking that hammering the case down onto a such a primer may produce a result that I would not appreciate. (What attracts me to this particular primer is that a box of 1000 of them can be bought relatively inexpensively. But if these are too dangerous, please recommend an inexpensive alternative.)

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I just use the case mouth chamfering tool on the primer pocket , it seems to work just fine.
Cat
 
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IMG_5927.jpegIMG_5930.jpegIMG_5932.jpegIMG_5940.jpegIMG_5938.jpegIMG_5936.jpegIMG_5935.jpegIMG_5934.jpegIMG_5937.jpegSo I’m all finished with the experiment today. It was a nice day temperature was -5 a very slight wind that I don’t believe affected anything at all, I had the range to myself until my last group and a new range member with a brand new pal and rifle showed up. I gave him some pointers on getting his scope zeroed in. After about 10 rounds or so at 25 yards he moved up to hitting steel at 100 with his new .22. We were both pretty happy about that!
OK onto the testing, I must say, I am pleasantly surprised with the results.
So a quick recap, we have 50 rounds and 10 shot groups for each category. First category is 25.3gr charges and the second is 1.6cc scoop charges. The first 40 shots of each were at 100 yards and the last 10 of each were at 200 yards.
I recorded all the velocities and shot placement on the targets. After all this testing I think the load I developed and thought I found the sweet spot with, may have room for improvement!
Seems that the scoops did better at 100yds than my carefully measured loads.
OK now onto the pictures….
 
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Ghillbert said:
...........
OK onto the testing, I must say, I am pleasantly surprised with the results.
So a quick recap, we have 50 rounds and 10 shot groups for each category. First category is 25.3gr charges and the second is 1.6cc scoop charges. The first 40 shots of each were at 100 yards and the last 10 of each were at 200 yards.
I recorded all the velocities and shot placement on the targets. After all this testing I think the load I developed and thought I found the sweet spot with, may have room for improvement!
Seems that the scoops did better at 100yds than my carefully measured loads.
OK now onto the pictures….
Click to expand...
Great testing.(y)

I'm not surprised by the carefully-weighed groups, but I certainly am impressed with the scoop-and-pour groups, even the one at 200 yards (because I have a 1.6cc scoop in my Lee Loader Classic kit and now I know what it can deliver). I conclude that the method that one chooses to use to measure powder really does depend upon the ultimate personal goal of the shooter.
 
Iloverevolvers said:
I look forward to reading your results. How much of the volume of the case do you think the 1.6ccs of powder used up?
Click to expand...
CFE223 and several other "ball" type powders have almost identical burn rates, and 23-25 grains is a pretty standard load weight/volume that gives good results, without crushing powder, but with enough volume to come very close to the base of the bullet.
 
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