Which Long Range Caliber for 1600 Yards?

I have a .338 Lapua barrelled action sitting in my safe for the same intent. It’s not perfect but it will do. Got it as payment for a job and figured what is a rifle I wouldn’t buy!

If I don’t enjoy it as much as I thought when I eventually finish the build I’d step it down to a 300PRC or 7PRC as I think they are an excellent option for the intended use. I already have a 6.5PRC in a hunting rifle and love the cartridge and just hate having two of the same rifle. Also splash at longer ranges can be a pain to spot at times depending on the ground conditions.

I there are definitely cartridges better than the 338 Lapua but it’s probably the easiest factory option (not recommended based on price though) if you want to step up a bolt face size but if you’re staying magnum 7PRC or 300 PRC would be the easy buttons. If you’re staying short action you could use WSM cartridges, Saums, 6.5 PRC, or even Sherman’s. You could also go 7-6.5PRCW to get some 7mm projectiles and run a long barrel to get the speed up!

Plenty of options down the rabbit hole.

B
 
bdb.hunting said:
I have a .338 Lapua barrelled action sitting in my safe for the same intent. It’s not perfect but it will do. Got it as payment for a job and figured what is a rifle I wouldn’t buy!

If I don’t enjoy it as much as I thought when I eventually finish the build I’d step it down to a 300PRC or 7PRC as I think they are an excellent option for the intended use. I already have a 6.5PRC in a hunting rifle and love the cartridge and just hate having two of the same rifle. Also splash at longer ranges can be a pain to spot at times depending on the ground conditions.

I there are definitely cartridges better than the 338 Lapua but it’s probably the easiest factory option (not recommended based on price though) if you want to step up a bolt face size but if you’re staying magnum 7PRC or 300 PRC would be the easy buttons. If you’re staying short action you could use WSM cartridges, Saums, 6.5 PRC, or even Sherman’s. You could also go 7-6.5PRCW to get some 7mm projectiles and run a long barrel to get the speed up!

Plenty of options down the rabbit hole.

B
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If you don't like the .338 (odds are you will provided it's a reasonably heavy gun and runs a brake) then your best bet is to go down to a .300NM as it uses the same bolt face.
 
If I were in your shoes I would look into what the 7 saum has to offer with a custom throat you’ll probably get pretty close to 7 prc performance and most likely not need to swap action length and can run your current set up. If you’re looking for a reason to build another gun plinking at just under a mile I’d build off Lapua/Norma bolt face and see what flavor of that you like
 
jimbo14 said:
Your personal choice is going to be about your balance between easy hits (bigger cartridge), and learning more about the wind with a smaller cartridge.

I’d personally go the more challenging route. Learning wind is a skill you can take with you from rifle to rifle.
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I'm gonna preface this by saying that the easy/cheap route for the OP is just to get a long (28-30") heavy steel 6.5 PRC barrel spun up. No need for new dies, cases, possibly bullets (if already running something heavy like 153.5s) and pretty reasonable performance.

I'm also not gonna address that the splash from bigger caliber bullets is easier to spot at distance (that was part of my decision making process to build a .300NM, my 1500 and 1600yd targets are in cut blocks and it's hard to see splash from 6.5 bullets in that kinda stuff).

I am gonna address your point about how you "learn more about the wind with a smaller cartridge" because you hear that quite often but imo it's only true up to a point. I like to look at the width of a target in terms of how many mph wide it is relative to how much the bullet will drift at that given range. I also don't really like overly large targets as I honestly don't see the point/practical application. I use 24" targets at 1500 & 1600 yds cause I think any bigger than that is just getting kinda silly. So lets look at a 24" target at 1600m, it's a hair under 0.4 mils wide, what I'd consider a low probability target by any real metric. Now I don't have the exact numbers for what a longer barrelled 6.5 PRC would be in terms of gun number but I bet at that range calling it an 8mph gun is close (if not generous). I do know that my .300NM is a 10mph gun. So at 1600m (1760yds) the 6.5 PRC will drift 0.22mrad/mph of wind whereas the .300NM will drift 0.18mrad/mph. The Norma has just shy of 0.05mrad less drift per mph of wind. Now that's not enough to turn a bad wind call into a hit, especially considering that according to some pretty experienced/knowledgeable people (including Emil Praslick) maintain that the best wind callers in the world will call the wind to within +/- 2mph on a given day (no wind flags or anything like that). What it will do is give you more of a cushion for the slightest variations in wind velocity and direction change that will push you off the plate. ). 0.05mrad doesn't sound like much but it's about 12.5% of the width of the plate and a solid leg up on beating small changes that you just can't pick up on.

If you made it all the way through that, thanks for coming to my Ted talk on wind, haha. The long and the short is I don't think you will "learn more about the wind by shooting a smaller cartridge" in this case.
 
Thank you, Dave. Much appreciated.

I decided to take your thoughts and ran them through WEZ.

Now if I had a world class spotter, I’d still do the 6.5PRC, but I don’t think Rags or Furlong would come by when needed. 🤣

My 300PRC with the 30” barrel would be getting more hits than misses. The 6.5PRC, not so much (according to WEZ).
 
jimbo14 said:
Thank you, Dave. Much appreciated.

I decided to take your thoughts and ran them through WEZ.

Now if I had a world class spotter, I’d still do the 6.5PRC, but I don’t think Rags or Furlong would come by when needed. 🤣

My 300PRC with the 30” barrel would be getting more hits than misses. The 6.5PRC, not so much (according to WEZ).
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My pleasure. I shoot in switchy conditions in the mountains all the time, usually at smallish targets and mostly with an 18" 6.5 Creed so I've become well versed in looking at things with regards to plate width and hit probability with wind changes that are essentially impossible to pick up on until you see the splash. When it comes to ELR there is rarely any replacement for displacement, haha.
 
Plenty of great points and things to consider. Thanks.

Never had the 7 Saum on the radar, but that one looks intriguing. Was reading WAY to much last night, too late, but I think I came to that conclusion the 7 Saum, longer throat, 30" stainless barrel will be the way to go. Just the easy button with the stock, action I already have going with ballistics that will suffice.

I think jumping up higher will get me $$ in powder consumption, and that's not the way I really wanted to go. Feeding the 2 rifles currently, 6mm's with Varget is adding up. Roughly 100 rounds a week total for the last few weeks getting my daughter practiced up for a shoot this coming weekend is taking its toll.

Almost ordered Saum brass last night. Talk about getting ahead of the game! My last build I had dies, brass, and bullets before I had the barrel. Talk about caliber commitment.

Now to figure the new 184 Berger's or the 180's?
 
wallz said:
Plenty of great points and things to consider. Thanks.

Never had the 7 Saum on the radar, but that one looks intriguing. Was reading WAY to much last night, too late, but I think I came to that conclusion the 7 Saum, longer throat, 30" stainless barrel will be the way to go. Just the easy button with the stock, action I already have going with ballistics that will suffice.

I think jumping up higher will get me $$ in powder consumption, and that's not the way I really wanted to go. Feeding the 2 rifles currently, 6mm's with Varget is adding up. Roughly 100 rounds a week total for the last few weeks getting my daughter practiced up for a shoot this coming weekend is taking its toll.

Almost ordered Saum brass last night. Talk about getting ahead of the game! My last build I had dies, brass, and bullets before I had the barrel. Talk about caliber commitment.

Now to figure the new 184 Berger's or the 180's?
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I built a 7SAUM before my .300NM, it was gonna be my long range hunting/occasional ELR rifle. 26" carbon barrel and ran ammo at mag length for practicality's sake. The lore was that you could pretty easily get 180s to 2900 but I was never able to without hitting pressure (my final load was about 2800). I tried 180 ELD-Ms and 180 Berger hybrids with H1000, H4831SC and H4350, if memory serves. I was using Bertram brass though which is known to be mediocre but it's what was available at the time (circa 2018-19). Proofed my load out to a mile then shot a spiker at about 20yds with it, haha. I built my Norma pretty soon afterwards and that barrel has just been sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I recently got some ADG brass for it though and will be revisiting load dev with some 162s but for more of a LR hunting focus.

You'll probably get 2900 with 180s if you load long. I'd get some ADG brass and try the 180 ELD-Ms, Hybrids and the 184s, see what it likes best. H1000, N560, N565 or maybe 570 (which is magic in a .300NM). If memory serves, your charge weights will be in the 70gr range whereas my .300NM load is 90gr so def some savings on powder.
 
Lots of great suggestions and many I have also played with. What the last 25yrs of shooting ELR distances has shown me is that unless you are competing, the biggest baddest magnum is alot harder to use then first glance (been there done that in 7mm, 30cal and 338)

A few questions to consider...

Bore life... I used to shoot a couple of times each week. If a chambering has a barrel life around 1000rds, I am going through barrels often.
Recoil... I have never found recoil to help LR accuracy and a bucking bronco with the best ballistics on paper may lead to alot of misses cause you can't drive it well. The rests and stock become really important.
Component costs and availability... self explanatory and unsure if that matters to you.
How easy to get load tuned... If you are needing 100rds to tune a chamber with 1000rds of bore life, you spend alot of time with new barrels.

Accuracy... the smaller the cartridge vs bore, usually, the easier to get itty bitty groups. There is a massive difference in long range hit 'probability' going from a 1/3 min setup to a 3/4 min one... even if drift on paper, is higher for the more accurate setup. You can easily drive a tight cone of accuracy.

Bullets... just run the ballistic parameters to see what your velocity is predicted to be at 1600yds. I suspect ALOT of combos are traveling at or below high transonic speeds (slower then 1400fps). Some bullets don't do well when slowed down and that can include alot of the highest BC options.

I also shoot in the hills with often strong and swirling winds. Larger cal heavier bullets tend to track better even when the paper numbers favor a smaller option.

I have taken my 22 Creedmoor with Sierra 95gr MKs to 1600yds and the performance was very good. Also, seen a 6.5 CM with136gr custom bullets hammer at 1 mile.

for me, I run a 308win based on my FTR combo. 1/3 min accurate AT 1000yds and furthest reached was 2450yds. Out to 1 mile is very straightforward with tight cone of accuracy.
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Regardless, go have fun and the right option for you will sort itself the more rds to put downrange.

Jerry
 
6.5prc still has enough spin to get you out to 1500 + change ... I have a 156gr Berger load that works well for LR with my Sauer 100 FS. Having a good + proper scope is also important - you need a good one for shooting out there; its another consideration. Shooting targets or steel is one thing, if its hunting than you need a hunting round with enough jam to kill ... if I was hunting it would be another calibre: bigger
 
9.3 Hunter said:
6.5prc still has enough spin to get you out to 1500 + change ... I have a 156gr Berger load that works well for LR with my Sauer 100 FS. Having a good + proper scope is also important - you need a good one for shooting out there; its another consideration. Shooting targets or steel is one thing, if its hunting than you need a hunting round with enough jam to kill ... if I was hunting it would be another calibre: bigger
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Yea, I run the 156's for hunting in my 6.5 PRC at or near 2930 fps. I practice with it out to 1100m, but just don't want to use that carbon barrel shooting all the time. I carry a 450BM for hunting as well, and push the 295gr copper tip at 2280 fps, so I'm good out to 350 ish - 400m with it. Already a confirmed kill at 245m and several less. The 6.5 PRC I carry when I know there might be potential for longer shots.

This one is for steel plinking only so a heavy stainless 30" barrel will fit it well. Add some weights onto the chassis that it sits in now, and a quick barrel swap. When hunting season rolls around, swap barrels, set scope to zero with a few rounds = good to go for the fall. I use a ranger bino , so a quick profile swap on the app and I'm all set with the dope. Under a minute and ready to go. Use the 7 saum the rest of the season.

I have a 4-20x50 scope sitting on that action, so I think I'll be good for the glass on it.
 
rugbydave said:
I built a 7SAUM before my .300NM, it was gonna be my long range hunting/occasional ELR rifle. 26" carbon barrel and ran ammo at mag length for practicality's sake. The lore was that you could pretty easily get 180s to 2900 but I was never able to without hitting pressure (my final load was about 2800). I tried 180 ELD-Ms and 180 Berger hybrids with H1000, H4831SC and H4350, if memory serves. I was using Bertram brass though which is known to be mediocre but it's what was available at the time (circa 2018-19). Proofed my load out to a mile then shot a spiker at about 20yds with it, haha. I built my Norma pretty soon afterwards and that barrel has just been sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I recently got some ADG brass for it though and will be revisiting load dev with some 162s but for more of a LR hunting focus.

You'll probably get 2900 with 180s if you load long. I'd get some ADG brass and try the 180 ELD-Ms, Hybrids and the 184s, see what it likes best. H1000, N560, N565 or maybe 570 (which is magic in a .300NM). If memory serves, your charge weights will be in the 70gr range whereas my .300NM load is 90gr so def some savings on powder.
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Yea I was reading up on the H1000, H4831SC, some of the N powders. Might even try retumbo as a combo when the time comes.

For sure I want to find the ADG brass for it. I was reading 2800-2900 is about right for the 7Saum sweet spot, so will keep that in mind.

Want to get a bit of free bore for sure, and make sure the smith is aware, maybe even send him a dummy round to work with as it will be single loaded. I'll have my son print a single feed sled for the mag well. I use one in the 6GT and it works well for bench shooting.
 
wallz said:
Yea I was reading up on the H1000, H4831SC, some of the N powders. Might even try retumbo as a combo when the time comes.

For sure I want to find the ADG brass for it. I was reading 2800-2900 is about right for the 7Saum sweet spot, so will keep that in mind.

Want to get a bit of free bore for sure, and make sure the smith is aware, maybe even send him a dummy round to work with as it will be single loaded. I'll have my son print a single feed sled for the mag well. I use one in the 6GT and it works well for bench shooting.
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Iv found H1000 to be pretty consistent in my 7 saum. But when trying to run hotter loads I would get clickers after 2-3 firings on my ADG brass. I lowered my powder charge 1.5 grains to a lower node and it seemed to fix the problem.

Iv read of others having the clicker issue with the Saum and ADG, just something to maybe look into if you go that route.

We’ll see ya this weekend Walt!!
 
tl;dr

300PRC.

Its the sweet spot of factory ammo availability, barrel life, long range ballistics, cost of bullets / reloading, etc.

7PRC is very meh. you can't get the 250gr bullets.

338LM, great choice also, but cost of shooting is notably higher.

I have or have had a good variety of these, I consistently come back to 300 PRC. I would for sure not go smaller. A benefit of 'bigger' is being able to easier spot the misses.
 
Bfranklin said:
tl;dr

300PRC.

Its the sweet spot of factory ammo availability, barrel life, long range ballistics, cost of bullets / reloading, etc.

7PRC is very meh. you can't get the 250gr bullets.

338LM, great choice also, but cost of shooting is notably higher.

I have or have had a good variety of these, I consistently come back to 300 PRC. I would for sure not go smaller. A benefit of 'bigger' is being able to easier spot the misses.
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Sweet Spot round!!
 
Bustercluck said:
By the sounds of this thread, it might be making a comeback.
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I wouldn't say a comeback. It's had a steady, albeit not huge, following for the past maybe 10 years as a good performing extended range cartridge (exclusively for hand loaders) that you can shoehorn into a short action. Lots of guys liked the 7WSM as well but brass totally dried up. Since ADG started making 7SAUM brass a few years back that has kinda been the go to. Obviously there is pretty much no factory ammo available (other than from some boutique brands stateside, maybe Eagle Eye or Unknown Munitions) and even if someone had a box of old factory ammo it wouldn't be very applicable to extended long range shooting (was all hunting ammo). I want to say the 7 Sherman Short is probably pretty similar but I'm really not well versed on the Sherman cartridges.
 
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