saskgunowner101
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- middle of Sask
No, so I suppose that makes two of us that don't have a technical background in this new cartridge.
6.5 Needmoor ~ Federal +Peak
- Thread starter todbartell
- Start date
- Status
Bustercluck
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort McMurray
That’s alot.
Ron Smith made me a pxt barrel about 10-15 years ago… but I think he just called it a gain twist.
80-85 psi is gonna be hard on recoil lugs and bolt thrust is gonna be High 
Is it a higher heat output? I don't know exactly how amount of powder burned compares to peak pressure, but if you know please explain. All other things being equal a higher peak pressure would lead to higher temps but we're not comparing things where only a single variable has changed.
hunter-4-life
Regular
Someone at Federal heard it called the 6.5 NeedMore too many times and said “hold my beer”…….lol
Increased pressure over CIP level, will that mean we need to re-proof? Will this ammo get CIP approval?
All the years on here I was told it has nothing to do with the case design, material or wall thickness when it came to increasing pressures on a 6.5x55.
edi
All the years on here I was told it has nothing to do with the case design, material or wall thickness when it came to increasing pressures on a 6.5x55.
edi
I agree,Ron's gain twist barrels are nowhere near extreme as these PXT barrels are.
I have owned more than 8 RKS gain twists, in various calibers and cartridges, and really like them.
I'll let someone else spend the big bucks on this new technology and figure things out however, I haven't drunk that Kool-Aid yet! LOL
Cat
Last edited:
adamthebad
Regular
- Location
- .here and .there
You cannot change peak pressure without altering the heat energy of the system.
Physics fact!
The Federal +Peak cartridge uses the exact same physical volume as a standard 6.5 Creedmoor case. You physically cannot fit 15% more powder into it.
onto Chemical engineering....
To jump from 62,000 psi to 80,000 psi within the same volume, Federal uses a faster burning mix combined with heavier powder compaction.
In thermodynamics, PRESSURE and Temperature are.directly proportional
aka IDEAL GAS LAW ( PV=nRT)
You aren't burning more fuel, you are burning the fuel way faster and tighter. This causes a massive spike in peak temperature and gas velocity, which is why it cooks steel barrels so quickly.
You are robbing barrel life (Peter) to pay for extra velocity (Paul).
adamthebad
Regular
- Location
- .here and .there
case material or wall thickness doesn't matter for pressure .
Brass is a very soft metal. At standard 6.5 Creedmoor pressures, brass acts like a flexible gasket—it expands to seal the chamber and snaps back. If you try to force brass to 80,000 psi, its material yield strength is instantly exceeded.
The brass turns to hot putty, flows into the ejector holes, blows out the primer pocket, and welds itself to the chamber walls.
The ONLY reason Federal +Peak can hit 80,000 psi without destroying the gun is its proprietary steel-alloy Peak case By a in house design!!
The steel alloy has a vastly higher structural yield strength than brass, meaning it can take the 80,000 psi beating, maintain its shape, and extract smoothly without tearing the rim off. Case material is quite literally the entire reason this pressure increase is possible.
Under standard CIP rules, a "6.5 Creedmoor" cartridge is strictly locked to its established maximum pressure. CIP will not approve a commercial round that shares the exact same external dimensions as a standard cartridge but spikes to 80,000 psi.
My guess it WILL never see CIP approval!
If a European shooter drops a 80,000 psi +Peak round into an older, weaker, or poorly maintained 6.5 Creedmoor rifle, the gas pressure could exceed the action's structural limit, resulting in a catastrophic failure. so there is that.
This Recipe has opened all kinds of.nasty deals
adamthebad
Regular
- Location
- .here and .there
There is a physics distinction:
the difference between "Overbore Volume" and "Pure Pressure Stress."
Overbore;
They take a massive bucket of slow-burning powder (often 80 to 110+ grains) and force it through a relatively small hole; @ 62,000 to 65,000 psi
OVER PRESSURE ( PLASMA TORCH effect); Thermal Ablation and Micro-Cracking , instead of a long, drawn-out burn, the pressure spikes violently right at the start line.
adamthebad
Regular
- Location
- .here and .there
Stellite is incredibly brittle and nearly impossible to button-rifle or cut-rifle conventionally.
In military barrels, a separate Stellite liner sleeve is pressed into the first several inches of the throat/bore area where the heat is worst, rather than making the entire barrel out of it.
TEARS for civilians....
Custom barrel manufacturers (like Proof Research, Bartlein, or Krieger) do not produce Stellite-lined blanks for civilian bolt-action rifles. It is a highly industrial, cost-prohibitive military process.
Inserting a Stellite sleeve creates a physical seam in the bore. While this is perfectly fine for a machine gun pushing suppression fire, that minute imperfection hurts the sub-MOA precision that 6.5 Creedmoor shooters expect.
Until custom shops begin offering exotic liners for high-pressure civilian hunting rounds, your best line of defense against the 80,000 psi plasma torch is to purchase a Cold Hammer Forged (CHF), Nitrided, or heavy-duty Chrome-Lined barrel.
While it still won't last as long as a standard 62,000 psi setup, it will far outlast a standard match-grade stainless steel barrel...
New toy round...like striking a flash in a pan
adamthebad
Regular
- Location
- .here and .there
FEDERAL marketing....Why the Military Wants It....Extreme Reliability, No Logistic Conversions, Optimized for Suppressors, Shorter, Handier Carbines.
Bad for civilian...
Strict Maintenance Requirements, Complex Reloading Hurdles, High Operational Costs:, Accelerated Barrel Wear....
Maintenance being the worst.
- Location
- West Central Alberta
My Deer rifle just turned into a Moose rifle.
I would agree with this but in thermodynamics you are comparing the same material( water) … not all powders burn at the same temperature. Imr7828 is well known to burn at max pressure with a substantial decrees in temperature. So as soon as you change to a faster burning powder you can’t compare to the 4350 the standard load is using.
Federal says barrel life is comparable to standard loads. Time will tell
adamthebad
Regular
- Location
- .here and .there
TIME does.tell a.lot..
but so do numbers and current tech in rifle making and materials especially some of the garbage off the shelf.
Standard 6.5 Creedmoor @ 62,000 psi @
2,500 – 3,000+ @ 1 barrel
versus
Standard 6.5 PRC @ 65,000 psi @ 1,100 – 1,500 @ 1 barrel
versus
Federal +Peak 6.5 Creedmoor @ 80,000 psi @ Estimated under 500 @ 1 barrel.
PHYSICS says there is a change.
and Barrels will change with it.
PROBLEM with corporate marketing....sales to generate money always comes first.
- Status
