6.5 Needmoor ~ Federal +Peak

track said:
That's an interesting thought. How much more powder can they stuff into that small case, to increase the velocity of 300 fps? I would guess a fast burning powder.
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This is dumb. How can ANY hand loader be mystified by this? You can achieve that much velocity and pressure with LESS powder. My word. You are running your 270 Winchester at 75,000 PSI. 🤣
 
My take on the powder, barrel length and high pressure technology is probably wrong but here's my non science perspective...
I believe they are using a faster burning powder ( for barrel length and caliber ) to spike the pressure and burn mostly in the chamber. This can (in my mind) reduce barrel wearing due to heat and flame travel down the barrel staying closer to the cartridge. Producing faster velocity quickly.. and by nature reducing a minimal or at least equal amount of ( in the case of the 6.5 due to cartridge volume design. ) barrel wear. Barrel wear is always subject to the user and barrel material. Any barrel allowed to cool properly will have significantly less wear than one that hasn't. Hence the wildly different and speculative figures on barrel life with high pressure cartridges.
Welcome to the new age kids... Cheers
 
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270WSMXBolt said:
My take on the powder, barrel length and high pressure technology is probably wrong but here's my non science perspective...
I believe they are using a faster burning powder ( for barrel length and caliber ) to spike the pressure and burn mostly in the chamber. This can in my mind reduce barrel wearing due to heat and flame travel down the barrel staying closer to the cartridge. Producing faster velocity quickly.. and by nature reducing a minimal or at least equal amount of ( in the case of the 6.5 due to cartridge volume design. ) barrel wear. Barrel wear is always subject to the user and barrel material. Any barrel allowed to cool properly will have significantly less wear than one that hasn't. Hence the wildly different and speculative figures on barrel life with high pressure cartridges.
Welcome to the new age kids... Cheers
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Nope ! Right out the end of the cartridge and a bit more is the hottest by far ! 80000 psi loads are gonna burn up the throat QUICK. Some powders are just gonna do it faster 😛 👍

Next time you shoot a rifle it’s Easy to feel the difference in barrel heat at the end of the chamber and that’s the thicker part of the barrel . It’s get cooler as you go towards the muzzle .
 
remington jim said:
Nope ! Right out the end of the cartridge and a bit more is the hottest by far ! 80000 psi loads are gonna burn up the throat QUICK. Some powders are just gonna do it faster 😛 👍

Next time you shoot a rifle it’s Easy to feel the difference in barrel heat at the end of the chamber and that’s the thicker part of the barrel . It’s get cooler as you go towards the muzzle .
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I guess the barrel mass comes into play too with feeling the barrel like that. It's one of my weird habits after the second shot I start doing it all the time.. feeling the barrel.. but I'm shooting magnums and 26" so mass and profile are different. Like I said it's just my thought process and probably wrong. Cheers
 
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From my perspective, I don't get the 80k psi thing. Let's just assume that barrel wear is identical (unlikely) and that there aren't any other negative effects from pressures at those levels (also unlikely): saying that 300fps is some kind of "game-changer" is like saying that 15% more horsepower in your car would drastically change your life. "I'd never be late for work again!" Or "Think how much faster I'll be able to get groceries, or go to the hardware store!"

It's totally inconsequential for hunting. Muzzle velocity is never the reason you don't get your animal. Velocity is never the limiting factor for anything this side of the year 1920. Yeah, you could soup up a 300 Blackout to .308 Win levels, but then you just have a .308... And how many guys, for decades, have been ringing steel at 1000yds with F Class rigs in .308 Win? High pressure loads in steel cases offer MARGINAL gains, no matter what the marketing guys at Federal tell you.

The real driver seems to be this idea that at 80k psi, you can run a 16" barrel with 8" of suppressor attached, and make up for the velocity loss through extremes of pressure. Maybe there's something to that, I don't know.

Firearms are already designed to last a lifetime with normal use. Brass is expensive, and steel is cheap. If you'll pay as much or more money for steel cased ammo that pushes bullets just slightly faster than in brass ("Just think of the performance!!!") then profit margins go up, and everyone has a new reason to buy a new product.

Maybe this is the future and I just can't see it, but I'm not buying it, so far.
 
It will interesting when someone here gets some Federal plus Peak ammo and runs it by the GARMIN Lie Detector 😊
We shall see then what the speed is for sure . 👍
Theres 5 options of this new 6.5 Super Creedmore !

It’s just a PLUS Pressure loading of a existing cartridge using the Tuffer Brass - not unlike Hornady tried 🤷‍♂️ to do with there Superformance ammo 🤣
 
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Well I never jumped on the 6.5 CM bandwagon so I really don't have to worry about what it will or will not do to the gun and barrel, the thing is it's new and gives some guy's a woody, hey good on you fill your boots, others think it a flash in the pan, might be, Federal thinks it's the real deal and will change the world of 6.5 CM hunters ?? I doubt that but the debate will rage on just like it did with the 7mm BC which for the most part has now gone quiet :rolleyes: is it really better or just different :unsure: it's all just splitting hairs but it sure keeps people talking and even gets some all stirred up :rolleyes:
 
ThatGuy said:
From my perspective, I don't get the 80k psi thing. Let's just assume that barrel wear is identical (unlikely) and that there aren't any other negative effects from pressures at those levels (also unlikely): saying that 300fps is some kind of "game-changer" is like saying that 15% more horsepower in your car would drastically change your life. "I'd never be late for work again!" Or "Think how much faster I'll be able to get groceries, or go to the hardware store!"

It's totally inconsequential for hunting. Muzzle velocity is never the reason you don't get your animal. Velocity is never the limiting factor for anything this side of the year 1920. Yeah, you could soup up a 300 Blackout to .308 Win levels, but then you just have a .308... And how many guys, for decades, have been ringing steel at 1000yds with F Class rigs in .308 Win? High pressure loads in steel cases offer MARGINAL gains, no matter what the marketing guys at Federal tell you.

The real driver seems to be this idea that at 80k psi, you can run a 16" barrel with 8" of suppressor attached, and make up for the velocity loss through extremes of pressure. Maybe there's something to that, I don't know.

Firearms are already designed to last a lifetime with normal use. Brass is expensive, and steel is cheap. If you'll pay as much or more money for steel cased ammo that pushes bullets just slightly faster than in brass ("Just think of the performance!!!") then profit margins go up, and everyone has a new reason to buy a new product.

Maybe this is the future and I just can't see it, but I'm not buying it, so far.
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Sizzle sells steaks. - dan
 
This is really just Federal's take on the bi-metal cases Sig uses in the 277 Fury. Yeah, 80k PSI is gonna get you higher muzzle velocities but you'll also get commensurately lower barrel life. How much lower remains to be seen but it will be pretty significant, I'd imagine a roughly 30% increase in pressure would result in 30% less life but these things aren't always linear and I'm no scientist. At the end of the day, there is no free lunch.

From a hunting perspective where most guys shoot <20 rounds a year and if they already have a 6.5 Creed it kinda turns it into 1 gun for pretty much everything.

I don't imagine you'll see this in PRS as the increased recoil and decreased barrel life are bigger disadvantages (for guys who already shoot 10k ish rounds/year) than the improved ballistics but possibly in some UKD field matches, who knows. Guys have already been resizing bi-metal Sig 277 cases into 6.5 creed and pushing speeds and I'm pretty sure some of the companies using the Nas3 cases have already been working on "high velocity" 6.5 creed as well. I guess time will tell how much barrel life you lose.
 
I just cannot figure out what the gain is here. Take this high pressure tech to it's logical conclusion: every modern calibre on earth, for which modern firearms exist, now gets up-regulated 200-300fps. So now your 300blk shoots like your .308, your .308 shoots like your .30-06 light magnum load, your .30-06 now does what your .300 Win Mag does, and your .300 Win Mag, whose recoil was already barely manageable, now shoots like a .300 Weatherby. And you don't want to think about what this does to the shootability of your .300 Weatherby!

So... Now you can run a 16" bbl .308 that weighs 6.5 lbs that recoils like a .300 Win Mag!?! Is that really what we've all needed but never knew until the marketers at Federal told us? I don't think so.
 
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