Brand New to Canada: SG-12 "SPAS"

JeffMan said:
Let us know how it goes.

What parts have you upgraded?

I’m thinking of using a 1/2 inch wood dowel to keep the spring retainer from inching forward.
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The wood spacer would be an excellent idea to keep the spring retainer in place.

I'll be removing the spring retainer to get 6 2.75" shells in the tube. To ensure the gun feeds, I have cut an S&J spring to length. And I'll try a couple of different magtube followers.
 
The Crover said:
JR Cox is hell of a thing to call someone, and I consider it highly insulting. I am not that snake.

You're right. I should have used the OEM spring and spring retainer. But I thought I knew better. I am knowledgeable in the subject matter. Other users with OEM parts are reporting the same issues now.

And you are also correct that Tactical Imports should address the problems.

In my opinion, Tactical Imports shipped hundreds of SP-12 shotguns that have a significant fault in the assembly of the firearm that puts their customers in possession of this firearm in legal jeopardy.

I am a customer of Tactical Imports, and I attempted to contact TI. I explicitly stated there were serious issues with the firearm and wished to speak with them. There has been no response to my email. TI posted a reply in this thread advising to clean and lubricate the firearms, and to use OEM parts.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-16#post-21414198

Since TI did not address the serious concerns I had with the SP-12, I made a public a thread in the Black and Green Shotguns forum 4 hours after emailing TI. In this thread, I explained TI had sent me something I considered to be illegal.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/threads/sp-12-spas-legal-concerns.2595620/#post-21414338

Less than 2 hours later, and only after TI commented on my thread, the entire thread was removed from public view by CGN.

CGN moderators are welcome to explain why they removed the thread. They have communicated why to me, but I will let them explain their actions to the public if they so choose.

A separate user asked about my BGS forum thread, and TI replied they could not take the plug out of the magtube extensions with hammer and punches. Their conclusion is that only I have this problem.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-17#post-21414774

The plug is threaded into the cap of the extension, and I let TI know this in this thread.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-17#post-21414879

Let me know if you have any questions.
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Care to go into detail on the legal issues with this firearm? I didnt purchase it, but to my knowledge it's just a cosmetics kit for an otherwise non-restricted receiver. Is it somehow parts interchangable with an actual SPAS-12? Or is there legal issue elsewhere on the firearm?
 
The Crover said:
Make sure to only reuse the OEM parts and not change them out. Everyone seems to think to do such a thing is a cardinal sin.

And check the magtube extension isn't falling apart.

EDIT: actually, ignore if the extension is falling to pieces. It's
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The Crover said:
JR Cox is hell of a thing to call someone, and I consider it highly insulting. I am not that snake.

You're right. I should have used the OEM spring and spring retainer. But I thought I knew better. I am knowledgeable in the subject matter. Other users with OEM parts are reporting the same issues now.

And you are also correct that Tactical Imports should address the problems.

In my opinion, Tactical Imports shipped hundreds of SP-12 shotguns that have a significant fault in the assembly of the firearm that puts their customers in possession of this firearm in legal jeopardy.

I am a customer of Tactical Imports, and I attempted to contact TI. I explicitly stated there were serious issues with the firearm and wished to speak with them. There has been no response to my email. TI posted a reply in this thread advising to clean and lubricate the firearms, and to use OEM parts.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-16#post-21414198

Since TI did not address the serious concerns I had with the SP-12, I made a public a thread in the Black and Green Shotguns forum 4 hours after emailing TI. In this thread, I explained TI had sent me something I considered to be illegal.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/threads/sp-12-spas-legal-concerns.2595620/#post-21414338

Less than 2 hours later, and only after TI commented on my thread, the entire thread was removed from public view by CGN.

CGN moderators are welcome to explain why they removed the thread. They have communicated why to me, but I will let them explain their actions to the public if they so choose.

A separate user asked about my BGS forum thread, and TI replied they could not take the plug out of the magtube extensions with hammer and punches. Their conclusion is that only I have this problem.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-17#post-21414774

The plug is threaded into the cap of the extension, and I let TI know this in this thread.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-17#post-21414879

Let me know if you have any questions.
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My main issue is that TI explicitly said that this gun need a break in period of about 200 rounds at 1350 fps. You went ahead, swap the spring, swap the follower, put a milk jug lid and then complain of double feeding.... Comon man. You probably have very legitimate points but you certainly didnt help your case.

Also correct me if im mistaken, but these guns being from out of Canada had to go through the RCMP lab in order to get an frt, i would assume they green lit it knowing full well how the magazine was limited. I had sks with 1 1/2 rod tack welded at the the bottom of the mag and they let ten of thousand of these in the country, I would argue that its way more work unrestricting this shotgun than thoses sks.

Also you gave them 24h to reply when they were obviously swamp with orders and most likely emails about when will be the next shippment....
 
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Deng577 said:
Care to go into detail on the legal issues with this firearm? I didnt purchase it, but to my knowledge it's just a cosmetics kit for an otherwise non-restricted receiver. Is it somehow parts interchangable with an actual SPAS-12? Or is there legal issue elsewhere on the firearm?
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The magtube extension is not permanently limited. The rod that is meant to stop the user from loading more than 6 rounds into the tube magazine can be unthreaded from the extension.
 
The Crover said:
The magtube extension is not permanently limited. The rod that is meant to stop the user from loading more than 6 rounds into the tube magazine can be unthreaded from the extension.
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image (1).jpg
 
Deng577 said:
Care to go into detail on the legal issues with this firearm? I didnt purchase it, but to my knowledge it's just a cosmetics kit for an otherwise non-restricted receiver. Is it somehow parts interchangable with an actual SPAS-12? Or is there legal issue elsewhere on the firearm?
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you can use tools to make guns illegal which he demonstrated to us for some reason
 
Jesus.C said:
My main issue is that TI explicitly said that this gun need a break in period of about 200 rounds at 1350 fps. You went ahead, swap the spring, swap the follower, put a milk jug lid and then complain of double feeding.... Comon man. You probably have very legitimate points but you certainly didnt help your case.

Also correct me if im mistaken, but these guns being from out of Canada had to got through the RCMP lab in order to get an frt, i would assume they green lit it knowing full well how the magazine was limited. I had sks with 1 1/2 rod tack welded at the the bottom of the mag and they let ten of thousand of these in the country, I would argue that its way more work unrestricting this shotgun than thoses sks.

Also you gave them 24h to reply when they were obviously swamp with orders and most likely emails about when will be the next shippment....
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You're incorrect. Please refer to the initial post range trip report for reference:

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-14#post-21413573

To clarify, the gun was disassembled, inspected, and reassembled with the following alterations:

- Spring retainer removed
- Magtube spring replaced with a spring that was 2.25x the length of the magtube.

The rest of the gun was in its original configuration, with the OEM magtube follower and extension.

The reason for the alterations was to get 6 2.75" shells in the magazine as advertised by Tactical Imports, as in its original configuration with the OEM magtube spring and spring retainer only 5 2.75" shells fit in the magazine; and to verify the magtube could not hold more than 5 3" shells per magazine capacity regulations.

Issues found during the first range trip were doublefeeds and failures to eject, and all other issues described in the original post range trip report.

It was only after the range trip that the issues with the mag extension were found. While diagnosing the source of the doublefeeds and FTFs, the mag extension was found to be coming apart. The limiting rod had begun to unscrew, as well as the mag extension cap. No tools were used to disassemble the extension. The milk jug lid and Beretta 1301 mag cap were the replacements to the extension while the extension was modified to meet regulations.

This is a Tactical Imports issue, and should be addressed by Tactical Imports. If TI sold you an SKS with a mag restricted by a screw, would we be having this conversation?

In regards to the importation, FRT, and regulatory approval, please contact Tactical Imports and the RCMP Firearms Lab.

And checking previous email correspondence with TI, they've replied to my emails within 15 mim after 5 pm and within 3 hours after 11 am. Those emails were sent respectively on Mondag Aug 31st on the launch day of the SP-12, and Wednesday Sep 2nd. The Sep 4th email was sent at 7:33 am MST/9:33 am EST. TI had 4 hours to reply to that email.

They have not replied to that email as of 2:08 pm Sep 6th.
 
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This was imported as the SP12. Didn't need another FRT entry as the "SPAS" components are just window dressing on an SP12.

You wouldn't need another FRT child entry for 10/22 chassis swaps so why would you need one for this? C'mon people...
 
The Crover said:
You're incorrect. Please refer to the initial post range trip report for reference:

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-14#post-21413573

To clarify, the gun was disassembled, inspected, and reassembled with the following alterations:

- Spring retainer removed
- Magtube spring replaced with a spring that was 2.25x the length of the magtube.

The rest of the gun was in its original configuration, with the OEM magtube follower and extension.

The reason for the alterations was to get 6 2.75" shells in the magazine as advertised by Tactical Imports, as in its original configuration with the OEM magtube spring and spring retainer only 5 2.75" shells fit in the magazine; and to verify the magtube could not hold more than 5 3" shells per magazine capacity regulations.

Issues found during the first range trip were doublefeeds and failures to eject, and all other issues described in the original post range trip report.

It was only after the range trip that the issues with the mag extension were found. While diagnosing the source of the doublefeeds and FTFs, the mag extension was found to be coming apart. The limiting rod had begun to unscrew, as well as the mag extension cap. No tools were used to disassemble the extension.

This is a Tactical Imports issue, and should be addressed by Tactical Imports. If TI sold you an SKS with a mag restricted by a screw, would we be having this conversation?

In regards to the importation, FRT, and regulatory approval, please contact Tactical Imports and the RCMP Firearms Lab.

And checking previous email correspondence with TI, they've replied to my emails within 15 mim after 5 pm and within 3 hours after 11 am. Those emails were sent respectively on Mondag Aug 31st on the launch day of the SP-12, and Wednesday Sep 2nd. The Sep 4th email was sent at 7:33 am MST/9:33 am EST. TI had 4 hours to reply to that email.

They have not replied to that email as of 2:08 pm Sep 6th.
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I stand corrected but utimatly at no point in time did you used the gun without any modification of yours, and at not point did you try to revert back to the original configuration, in fact you went futher with more modification. You also did not do the break in period to see if the ftf and double feed goes away.

Like I said you might have very legitimate points, likely do, but based on what you did we cannot come to any solid conclusion.

If im correct, the fact that this gun as an frt mean the rcmp approved the threaded rod as permanent blocking device. You can argue that this is not, but raising hell about it on forum is a very unwise move, especially in this climate.
 
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Jesus.C said:
I stand corrected but utimatly at no point in time did you used the gun without any modification of yours, and a not point did you try to revert back to the original configuration, in fact you went futher with more modification. You also did not do the break in period to see if the ftf and double feed goes away.

Like I said you might have very legitimate points, likely do, but based on what you did we cannot come to any solid conclusion.

If im correct, the fact that this gun as an frt mean the rcmp approved the threaded rod as permanent blocking device. You can argue that this is not, but raising hell about it on forum is a very unwise move, especially in this climate.
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Gun is about to be tested in its original configuration. Following TIs directions.

Putting faith in the RCMP Firearms Lab is not wise, as Mr. "B.A.R. MK III .300WINMAG" Murray Smith showed while testifying in court.

Put yourself in the shoes of anyone with this gun. They think they're legal. They bought the gun from a business that says is legal. And they realize that not only is the gun falling apart from normal use, but there is something seriously wrong with it.

You gonna stay quiet?
 
The Crover said:
Gun is about to be tested in its original configuration. Following TIs directions.

Putting faith in the RCMP Firearms Lab is not wise, as Mr. "B.A.R. MK III .300WINMAG" Murray Smith showed while testifying in court.

Put yourself in the shoes of anyone with this gun. They think they're legal. They bought the gun from a business that says is legal. And they realize that not only is the gun falling apart from normal use, but there is something seriously wrong with it.

You gonna stay quiet?
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Stay quiet on what?
We all know this is a turk gun and any sane person expect it to have issues, no suprise here. From all the review I could find here and on reddit it actually perform above my expectation.

As for the rod who say beside you that its illegal. I can drill the rivet of my mag faster then I can remove that rod.
 
The Crover said:
You're incorrect. Please refer to the initial post range trip report for reference:

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nada-sg-12-spas.2595012/page-14#post-21413573

To clarify, the gun was disassembled, inspected, and reassembled with the following alterations:

- Spring retainer removed
- Magtube spring replaced with a spring that was 2.25x the length of the magtube.

The rest of the gun was in its original configuration, with the OEM magtube follower and extension.

The reason for the alterations was to get 6 2.75" shells in the magazine as advertised by Tactical Imports, as in its original configuration with the OEM magtube spring and spring retainer only 5 2.75" shells fit in the magazine; and to verify the magtube could not hold more than 5 3" shells per magazine capacity regulations.

Issues found during the first range trip were doublefeeds and failures to eject, and all other issues described in the original post range trip report.

It was only after the range trip that the issues with the mag extension were found. While diagnosing the source of the doublefeeds and FTFs, the mag extension was found to be coming apart. The limiting rod had begun to unscrew, as well as the mag extension cap. No tools were used to disassemble the extension. The milk jug lid and Beretta 1301 mag cap were the replacements to the extension while the extension was modified to meet regulations.

This is a Tactical Imports issue, and should be addressed by Tactical Imports. If TI sold you an SKS with a mag restricted by a screw, would we be having this conversation?

In regards to the importation, FRT, and regulatory approval, please contact Tactical Imports and the RCMP Firearms Lab.

And checking previous email correspondence with TI, they've replied to my emails within 15 mim after 5 pm and within 3 hours after 11 am. Those emails were sent respectively on Mondag Aug 31st on the launch day of the SP-12, and Wednesday Sep 2nd. The Sep 4th email was sent at 7:33 am MST/9:33 am EST. TI had 4 hours to reply to that email.

They have not replied to that email as of 2:08 pm Sep 6th.
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TI sold you a shotgun that meats the legal requirements. You then illegally modified the magazine tube to hold more than 5 rounds. You should get out of here.
 
The Crover said:
Gun is about to be tested in its original configuration. Following TIs directions.

Putting faith in the RCMP Firearms Lab is not wise, as Mr. "B.A.R. MK III .300WINMAG" Murray Smith showed while testifying in court.

Put yourself in the shoes of anyone with this gun. They think they're legal. They bought the gun from a business that says is legal. And they realize that not only is the gun falling apart from normal use, but there is something seriously wrong with it.

You gonna stay quiet?
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Didnt ti and other owners already say they couldn't replicate your issue re the limiter? I havent heard anyone else say they have the same issue so genuinely curious why you insist its a universal issue at this time?
 
Jesus.C said:
I stand corrected but utimatly at no point in time did you used the gun without any modification of yours, and at not point did you try to revert back to the original configuration, in fact you went futher with more modification. You also did not do the break in period to see if the ftf and double feed goes away.

Like I said you might have very legitimate points, likely do, but based on what you did we cannot come to any solid conclusion.

If im correct, the fact that this gun as an frt mean the rcmp approved the threaded rod as permanent blocking device. You can argue that this is not, but raising hell about it on forum is a very unwise move, especially in this climate.
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Ah yes, because the RCMP have famously never re-examined something they allowed at a later date and changed their minds.

A rivet in a magazine is considered "permanent" because you need to destroy the rivet to remove it. If something can be unthreaded from something else to be removed, then by its very nature it is not permanent, it is designed to be removed in a non-destructive way. Tools being required to remove the "pin" plays no part in how "permanent" it is. If you threaded a screw into an AR mag, that screw would not be considered "permanent" because it can be removed in a way that harms neither the screw, nor the mag. If the plug for the mag on this shotgun is indeed just threaded into place, then that's not permanent, as it can be removed non-destructively. If the rod was welded into the cap, which was welded onto the mag, then that would be permanent.
 
F-Tang said:
Ah yes, because the RCMP have famously never re-examined something they allowed at a later date and changed their minds.

A rivet in a magazine is considered "permanent" because you need to destroy the rivet to remove it. If something can be unthreaded from something else to be removed, then by its very nature it is not permanent, it is designed to be removed in a non-destructive way. Tools being required to remove the "pin" plays no part in how "permanent" it is. If you threaded a screw into an AR mag, that screw would not be considered "permanent" because it can be removed in a way that harms neither the screw, nor the mag. If the plug for the mag on this shotgun is indeed just threaded into place, then that's not permanent, as it can be removed non-destructively. If the rod was welded into the cap, which was welded onto the mag, then that would be permanent.
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F-Tang said:
Ah yes, because the RCMP have famously never re-examined something they allowed at a later date and changed their minds.

A rivet in a magazine is considered "permanent" because you need to destroy the rivet to remove it. If something can be unthreaded from something else to be removed, then by its very nature it is not permanent, it is designed to be removed in a non-destructive way. Tools being required to remove the "pin" plays no part in how "permanent" it is. If you threaded a screw into an AR mag, that screw would not be considered "permanent" because it can be removed in a way that harms neither the screw, nor the mag. If the plug for the mag on this shotgun is indeed just threaded into place, then that's not permanent, as it can be removed non-destructively. If the rod was welded into the cap, which was welded onto the mag, then that would be permanent.
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If I put jb weld in thread, or somehow stake the rod?
 
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