.357 Mag Heavy Bear Load

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.357 Magnum might be a good balance of power and control in urgency with big animals, though the power itself might be minimum requirements for a grizzly charging. Trying 200gr or 180gr WLNGC/LFN-GC?

AGAIN, the recommended ammo for Grizzly is at least .44 or S&W 500, assuming you carry it on hiking (in a state allowed open or concealed carry).
The top tool for bear defense is bear spray for sure, based on data and official recommendation, but what if....

 
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where are you going to carry your handgun for bear protection
not in canada .
A 357 is not enough cartridge for grizzly .
If you have ever been beside a live or dead grizzly you would know that it is not enough
i have seen a grizzly shot with a 375h&h destroy ed the lungs and it was still on its feet for 30-40 seconds
 
struff55 said:
where are you going to carry your handgun for bear protection
not in canada .
A 357 is not enough cartridge for grizzly .
If you have ever been beside a live or dead grizzly you would know that it is not enough
i have seen a grizzly shot with a 375h&h destroy ed the lungs and it was still on its feet for 30-40 seconds
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wilderness carry ATC.
 
I think it's penetration that you'd need, and luck that the bullet intersects with the spine or CNS somewhere. Nothing else reliably produces a bang-flop dead-right-there result, not even a big bore rifle. I don't think 'power' is going to make a ton of difference. I'd take a bunch of lower-powered deeply-penetrating shots that I can place quickly, over a hand cannon that I might only get one shot off. So, if it were me, I'd load up a bunch of the heaviest hard cast I could find, and dump as many as possible in the right direction, and pray. As soon as you pull that trigger the bear is going into fight or flight mode - and you're hoping he chooses 'flight.' Incapacitation is less likely, and harder to achieve.
 
I was talking with a guy who was bow hunting black bear in northern Ontario. He put a broadhead straight through this bear's boilermaker. He knew it was a good hit, even though the bear took off on impact. He tells the story that the bear took off some 70 yards into thick bush from where he hit it. When field dressing it, he found the broadhead went through the upper aspect of its heart and both lungs, completely destroying not only the heart but major blood vessels...and it ran, 70 yards before it went down.

Handguns, even powerful magnums that act almost like rifles, really need not apply. Better than nothing, but not exactly efficient either. The older fella's would say the caliber better start with a 4 if it's a handgun you're relying on putting a bear down with. (.45 acp, .45 Colt, .45 Super, .44 Mag, 454 Casull...personally I'd take acp off that list but.)
 
Painkillers said:
I was talking with a guy who was bow hunting black bear in northern Ontario. He put a broadhead straight through this bear's boilermaker. He knew it was a good hit, even though the bear took off on impact. He tells the story that the bear took off some 70 yards into thick bush from where he hit it. When field dressing it, he found the broadhead went through the upper aspect of its heart and both lungs, completely destroying not only the heart but major blood vessels...and it ran, 70 yards before it went down.

Handguns, even powerful magnums that act almost like rifles, really need not apply. Better than nothing, but not exactly efficient either. The older fella's would say the caliber better start with a 4 if it's a handgun you're relying on putting a bear down with. (.45 acp, .45 Colt, .45 Super, .44 Mag, 454 Casull...personally I'd take acp off that list but.)
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Read this, with a 9mm to boot, not only did he have a horseshoe up this ass but the whole horse.


https://www.americanhunter.org/cont...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/
 
Well from Alaska the new ‘data’ is on a real charging bear the spray is 30% effective. Hazing a bear it’s close to 100%.
As for pistols the stats are 96% of bears go the other direction if shot from 9mm and up and a lot of guys use 9mm and 10mm autos. Deep penetration counts.
One podcast I was listening to mentioned they called the guy who gave the original report on bear spray that the govt used and he said he was misrepresented and it’s stupid not to carry a gun.
I have only used a rifle and a shotgun so will never know if a handgun will work.
Good luck to all.
 
Arcosdad said:
Switch to spray. Nearly 100% effective. Most people don't shoot well enough with a revolver under stress to achieve proper bullet placement.
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In a prison environment, I've seen inmates shake off OC like it's nothing. I'd hate to see what an 800 pound grizzly would do. Also, Bear spray is not good if the wind is in your face. Nothing is perfect, though
 
Arcosdad said:
Switch to spray. Nearly 100% effective. Most people don't shoot well enough with a revolver under stress to achieve proper bullet placement.
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I've had about 50/50 effectiveness when using spray. Some bears run away, others run away then come back for more. Others dont' even seem to notice it.

Although admittedly my sample size is pretty small. Have you used it with 100% effectiveness on both black bears and grizzlies?
 
HotToddy said:
In a prison environment, I've seen inmates shake off OC like it's nothing. I'd hate to see what an 800 pound grizzly would do. Also, Bear spray is not good if the wind is in your face. Nothing is perfect, though
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My late Brother in law worked in corrections and said the same thing about OC. I think the difference might be the inmate is acting with intent and perhaps under the influence of a substance whereas the bear is acting on instinct and once he perceives he can't see or smell his adversary he backs off, not to mention being shocked by the intense discomfort. Their sensory set-up is likely 50x stronger than ours and thus more sensitive to disturbance. Agreed on the wind for sure. Nothing is perfect...yup.
 
Gatehouse said:
I've had about 50/50 effectiveness when using spray. Some bears run away, others run away then come back for more. Others dont' even seem to notice it.

Although admittedly my sample size is pretty small. Have you used it with 100% effectiveness on both black bears and grizzlies?
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I have a small sample size, black bear only, where we gave one a "puff" to put him off pre- charge/ bluff charge. A thin mist reached him and he took off like a shot.

I taught Bear Aware to forestry/ silviculture types back in the day and heard numerous reliable direct accounts of spray use. Mostly successful. But I can't say 100% with certainty. Before the advent of spray I carried my Jungle Carbine when working in grizzly country, which at that time in BC was pretty localized. Silly really as I had to sling it because I often had an ax to carry too. I think the best effectiveness against bear for a sidearm is when you have no other choice. A fellow that worked for the same outfit as me had to shoot a black bear who had him by the boot as he climbed a tree to escape it. He carried a Model 10 .38 in his cruising vest and fortunately could get it out. That was a forehead shot two feet from the muzzle. A CO in BC was jumped by a wounded grizzly in the Kootenays a few years ago and was able to get his .40 out in time. Point blank.
 
Arcosdad said:
I have a small sample size, black bear only, where we gave one a "puff" to put him off pre- charge/ bluff charge. A thin mist reached him and he took off like a shot.

I taught Bear Aware to forestry/ silviculture types back in the day and heard numerous reliable direct accounts of spray use. Mostly successful. But I can't say 100% with certainty. Before the advent of spray I carried my Jungle Carbine when working in grizzly country, which at that time in BC was pretty localized. Silly really as I had to sling it because I often had an ax to carry too. I think the best effectiveness against bear for a sidearm is when you have no other choice. A fellow that worked for the same outfit as me had to shoot a black bear who had him by the boot as he climbed a tree to escape it. He carried a Model 10 .38 in his cruising vest and fortunately could get it out. That was a forehead shot two feet from the muzzle. A CO in BC was jumped by a wounded grizzly in the Kootenays a few years ago and was able to get his .40 out in time. Point blank.
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That is similar to my experiences. Bears that were not 100% committed and basically probing us seemed to be more easily dissuaded. Bears that were REALLY interested in us seem to shrug it off. One medium sized black bear ended up getting two full cans over the course of a couple of kilometers of trail and when the cans were spent we were grabbing sticks and rocks to throw but fortunately we made it to the truck.

Shooting a bear off your boot is not something to forget. I'm older now with lots of injuries so my tree climbing days are over. :)
 
I made 180gr LRN max loaded with h110. I'd shoot them into the ends of blocks of firewood 16 to 18 inch. I also did this with 240gr LSWC 44 mags and 300gr LWFNGC loaded as hot as I could. Both in 12in carbine barrels.

For what it was worth I recovered almost all of the 44 cal bullets. 300 deeper than the 240. I had a hard time recovering the 180 LRN. They would over penetrate the 44 and usually completely through the blocks.

All that I learned in this case was the 180RN to penetrate deeper than a 300WFN. Just thought Id share.

I still prefer the bigger hole.
 
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