Guns Africa Dangerous game

[josquin]

It is a common calibre from what Ive read. Can you take ammo over there?

The .375 Ruger isn't common. .375 H&H yes. You can take ammo if you follow the rules. (And be prepared for lots of contradictory information; the rules seem to change according to the country, airllne, airport etc.) A few CGN'ers, such as Boomer, martinbns and BigUglyMan have been to Africa and could give you some info. Also a good idea to troll on other "Africa" forums, such as those on 24 Hr. Campfire and Nitro Express as there are a number of African residents and PH's who post there. If you're not going for a while, maybe even subscribe to African Hunter magazine. Lots of good info there! I'm sure they had an article on lion hunting in the last year or so.

Here's some additional info from African Hunter’s Shot Placement Guide:

Minimum [recommended] calibre: .338 Wm
Recommended calibre: 9.3 Mauser [ie. 9.3x62], .375, .416

Two different animals in one. An unwounded lion succumbs easily to any HV soft point bullet through the heart and lungs... Like leopard, lion are subsceptible to hydrostatic shock. Wounded and pumped up with adrenaline, though, they represent a formidable target requiring the use of premium bullets...

Also, I see from a back issue of African Hunter that Phil Shoemaker (one of the top Alaskan guides. His licence plate is "458 WIN") gave a good review to the .375 Ruger (African, in this case, with the wood stock) and the new cartridge.

Stuart

 

[gitrdun]

i bought a 375 h&h last year, having shot and liked this caliber, it was a browning a-bolt II medalion model which was on sale new for $753.00 plus gst and shipping. great deal even though i think it is a bit light for the 375

i read in these forums that the heavier models such as remington, cz or brno would be better for the shooting and recoil of the 375. i would agree.

i for sure would appreciate more advice on this from all you experienced shooters, thanks

I shoot the .375 H&H in a Winchester M70 XTR. I've recently installed a Limbsaver recoil pad. I can comfortably shoot 3 rounds standing, no rest in quick succession without any issues. In fact, I prefer shooting the .375 over my .338WM . I was considering purchasing a CZ550 because it appears bulkier and heavier, but the Limbsaver has simply resolved that issue quite well.

 

[Demonical]

Well first off I am pretty sure .375 is the minimum caliber for dangerous game in any African country; or maybe the .366, which is the 9.3x62 or 9.3x64.

By far the most sensible gun for lion or any other dangerous game is the .375H&H. It is the standard DGR. It is by far the most readily available caliber and should be the starting point for any discussion Re: African game.

As for alternatives to the .375H&H the best idea is the .416RemMag IMHO! It is also readily available in any place Africa. It is available in rifles from every major arms company and it is inexpensive relative for the other DGRs that people might suggest. It has become an African standard along with the .375H&H or .458WM.

Some people have suggested a huge difference in recoil between the .375H&H and the .416Rem, I disagree. I have fired both and there is very little difference. If you can handle a .375 then the .416 is easy. It's like the diff' between a .308 and a .30-06 IMHO.

Since I already own a .416RemMag without a doubt that is the gun that I would take and I would load the 400gr Nosler Partition.

The .416Rigby is another option but they cost helluva lot more then the much more practical .416Rem.


So for me the caliber options for lion would be:
9.3x62 (assuming it is legal)
.375H&H
.416Remington


I would buy a good quality Winchester M-70, Ruger M-77 Safari, CZ-550 or the ZKK-602 (predecessor of the CZ-550) and I'd put a 1.5-6X variable scope on it.
I believe that a CRF rifle is the way to go, although hunting lion is pretty much guaranteed to be from a blind, from a solid shooting rest, at relatively close range, so it is probably not as important as when you're out after something like a cape buffalo.


Seein' as how I've never actually been to Africa these are just opinions of mine that I have come to after reading a "few" books, articles etc...

 

[tkv000]

Dangerous-Game Rifles by Terry Wieland is a great book.

add www: amazon.com/Dangerous-Game-Rifles-Terry-Wieland/dp/0892726911/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211324922&sr=8-1

 

[SuperCub]

you sound too stupid to be going anywhere without a note from your mom

Voted #1 quote of the year.

.

 

[SuperCub]

Of course you can take ammo . But had you picked the 375 H&H as many suggested to you, you'd be able to find ammo just about anywhere. I'm no expert, so follow the advise of people like Dogleg, Boomer and Martinbns, these are people with actual, real experience.

X2!! Why come here and ask the opinion and recommendations from knowledgeable folk and totally go in the other direction?


........... but you can't tell him much.

.

 

[Demonical]

Dangerous-Game Rifles by Terry Wieland is a great book.

add www: amazon.com/Dangerous-Game-Rifles-Terry-Wieland/dp/0892726911/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211324922&sr=8-1

I own Dangerous Game Rifles by Terry Wieland and IMHO I shoulda spent the money on a case of beer. The book is "almost okay" in my opinion.

In my opinion the best books that deal with DGR's are these two:

African Rifles and Cartridges by John Taylor.

Rifles for Africa by Gregor Woods.


Taylor wrote a second famous book called Big Game and big Game Rifles, but sadly I do not own that one...


I own a lot of books on African hunting and a few on Dangerous Game Rifles, including the book referred to by tkv000. Throughout any of the books on Africa which I have accumulated there are always rifles and caliber discussions.
I have read Taylor, Sutherland, Ruark, Bell, Woods, Roosevelt, Hemingway, Bulpin, Johnson, Hunter, Cedergren, Aagard, Keith, Thomson, Nyschens, Selous and probably some I have forgotten, plus every other discussion on African hunting I can, and I currently have books on order from www.SafariPress.com by Harland and Hill, again these are African hunting books.
If this sounds like "name dropping" you're right it is, but then I want to make my point.

One of the biggest complaints I have, regarding Weiland's book is it is written with far too much emphasis on Uber-Expensive custom rifles. For instance the Brnos are barely mentioned. And I'm talking like there is 2 sentences in the entire book on them; it's as if they do not exsit! But the fact is, for the average working man, the CZ-550 or ZKK-602 are probably the most common DGR rifle platforms in the world today, because they come from the factory with a true CRF magnum Mauser square bridge action, and to ignore them has to be bias, due to their "economy". Like it is not cool to show up in an African hunting camp unless you are packing some exclusive from the ground up custom rig blah, blah, blah...
And that is my main ##### Re: Weiland's book.

But go ahead and buy it. You can always sell it if you don't like it. And your opinions and tastes could be completely different from mine!

 

[tkv000]

I thought it was good, IMO, but I'm going to order those 2 you mentioned as well, a guy can't have enough reading material. (+1 on the lack of Brno mention, I think its the cats you know what for price/quality in a rifle, again, just my opinion, I liked the book mostly for the bullet coverage)

 

[mackillan]

Can I have some recommendations on a caliber that will suffice for lion etc but that is accurate. I would like to spend less than $4000.oo with scope if I can.

I went with the Ruger African. I spoke with 2 south african's today and they say its no problem taking in ammo as long as one has permits. They did say stay away from high crime areas in the big cities lol.
http://www.ruger.com/hawkeye375/African.html
My .204 Ruger can pop a Gopher ar 150 yards no problem and hitting a Kudu with a new Ruger cant be any more difficult than hitting a whitetail with a Lee Enfield. If the bullet becomes obsolete after a few Kudos thow it in the garbage. Hunting is a rich man's sport. The value won't wont deteriorate as fast as your TV, car or your wife.

 

[mackillan]

The .375 Ruger isn't common. .375 H&H yes. You can take ammo if you follow the rules. (And be prepared for lots of contradictory information; the rules seem to change according to the country, airllne, airport etc.) A few CGN'ers, such as Boomer, martinbns and BigUglyMan have been to Africa and could give you some info. Also a good idea to troll on other "Africa" forums, such as those on 24 Hr. Campfire and Nitro Express as there are a number of African residents and PH's who post there. If you're not going for a while, maybe even subscribe to African Hunter magazine. Lots of good info there! I'm sure they had an article on lion hunting in the last year or so.

Here's some additional info from African Hunter’s Shot Placement Guide:



Also, I see from a back issue of African Hunter that Phil Shoemaker (one of the top Alaskan guides. His licence plate is "458 WIN") gave a good review to the .375 Ruger (African, in this case, with the wood stock) and the new cartridge.

Stuart

According to some here he isnt expert enough lol.

 

[Demonical]

Funny what I said about Wieland not mentioning them due to economy! I pulled the book out just to check and here's what he has to say about the Brno's...


" The Czech company CZ is offering the .505Gibbs in an economical (although sound) rifle..."

pg. 192, Dangerous Game Rifles by Terry Wieland.


I'm glad you brought this up cuz I'm gonna give the book a re-read if for no other reason then to get my moneys worth!

 

[Demonical]

According to some here he isnt expert enough lol.

Are you talking about Phil Shoemaker? The guy has guided for brown bear in Alaska for 25 years. What are your references again?

mackillan do us all a favor and STFU up or else post up pics of some moose, cape buff', brown bear etc that you have taken.

 

[josquin]

According to some here he isnt expert enough lol.

I don't think anyone here (or anywhere) would dare question Phil's credentials!

For more info, go to: riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=599&magid=47 (add the "www")

Just in case you're not an experienced big/dangerous game hunter..., a lot of the African Hunter mag. archived articles can be found here: (as above, add the "www"): cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/huntersguide/huntersguide_index.htm. Useful reading.

Stuart

 

[mackillan]

I don't think anyone here (or anywhere) would dare question Phil's credentials!

For more info, go to: riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=599&magid=47 (add the "www")

Just in case you're not an experienced big/dangerous game hunter..., a lot of the African Hunter mag. archived articles can be found here: (as above, add the "www"): cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/huntersguide/huntersguide_index.htm. Useful reading.

Stuart

I was referring to the author who was supporting the 375 Ruger. I was being satirical. He is obviously an expert. Ill pick up the articles.

 

[mackillan]

Are you talking about Phil Shoemaker? The guy has guided for brown bear in Alaska for 25 years. What are your references again?

mackillan do us all a favor and STFU up or else post up pics of some moose, cape buff', brown bear etc that you have taken.

As if shooting 3 animals is equatable with a PhD in biochemistry lol.

 

[mackillan]

I own Dangerous Game Rifles by Terry Wieland and IMHO I shoulda spent the money on a case of beer. The book is "almost okay" in my opinion.

In my opinion the best books that deal with DGR's are these two:

African Rifles and Cartridges by John Taylor.

Rifles for Africa by Gregor Woods.


Taylor wrote a second famous book called Big Game and big Game Rifles, but sadly I do not own that one...


I own a lot of books on African hunting and a few on Dangerous Game Rifles, including the book referred to by tkv000. Throughout any of the books on Africa which I have accumulated there are always rifles and caliber discussions.
I have read Taylor, Sutherland, Ruark, Bell, Woods, Roosevelt, Hemingway, Bulpin, Johnson, Hunter, Cedergren, Aagard, Keith, Thomson, Nyschens, Selous and probably some I have forgotten, plus every other discussion on African hunting I can, and I currently have books on order from www.SafariPress.com by Harland and Hill, again these are African hunting books.
If this sounds like "name dropping" you're right it is, but then I want to make my point.

One of the biggest complaints I have, regarding Weiland's book is it is written with far too much emphasis on Uber-Expensive custom rifles. For instance the Brnos are barely mentioned. And I'm talking like there is 2 sentences in the entire book on them; it's as if they do not exsit! But the fact is, for the average working man, the CZ-550 or ZKK-602 are probably the most common DGR rifle platforms in the world today, because they come from the factory with a true CRF magnum Mauser square bridge action, and to ignore them has to be bias, due to their "economy". Like it is not cool to show up in an African hunting camp unless you are packing some exclusive from the ground up custom rig blah, blah, blah...
And that is my main ##### Re: Weiland's book.

But go ahead and buy it. You can always sell it if you don't like it. And your opinions and tastes could be completely different from mine!

Don't be sad. http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...s=t&tn=Big+Game+and+big+Game+Rifles&x=71&y=14

 

[mackillan]

I stand corrected

I went to wholesale sports oin Saskatoon. They had not even heard of the 375 Ruger and attempted to dismiss me until I showed it to them on a puter. They had no ammo and said only 2 boxes were in Calgary and could be shipped

 

[gitrdun]

I went to wholesale sports oin Saskatoon. They had not even heard of the 375 Ruger and attempted to dismiss me until I showed it to them on a puter. They had no ammo and said only 2 boxes were in Calgary and could be shipped

Well, lesson learned, everybody makes mistakes. But hey, your best approach now that you've already ordered your rifle would be to try and round up as much brass as possible and get yourself into reloading. You'll surely have some competion though.

 

[Gibbs505]

It is a common calibre from what Ive read. Can you take ammo over there?

Common in NA perhaps, but deepest, darkest africa? Maybe you can find some but at $15.00 per round! Do your homework!

About taking ammo, I belive that you can, however there are airline limits and the choice of country that you are going to may be question on importing ammo. Do your homework. BTW, some countries insist on origional ammo in factory boxes. So, if you reload, the may be a problem with customs in you have winchester ammo in a remmington box and they check the headstamps!

 

[Gibbs505]

Voted #1 quote of the year.

.

Guess you havent read much .............