I never load a round into magazine anyway, but most of my rem700PSS does very good at 100meter, and generally does very well out to 500meter, last weekend on Sunday, we try to shoot out to 700meter figure 11 metal gong, the last 5 round hit on to center mass, while the first 2 round miss because of the wind. is just my opinion that Truing the action is not necessary, what make the gun shoot good is the Quality of the Barrel is the first biggest thing, then putting them on straight is another, the rest got to do with reloading.
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I never load a round into magazine anyway, but most of my rem700PSS does very good at 100meter, and generally does very well out to 500meter, last weekend on Sunday, we try to shoot out to 700meter figure 11 metal gong, the last 5 round hit on to center mass, while the first 2 round miss because of the wind. is just my opinion that Truing the action is not necessary, what make the gun shoot good is the Quality of the Barrel is the first biggest thing, then putting them on straight is another, the rest got to do with reloading.
I never understood why some shooters do that; I was gonna start a thread on this (which I especially notice in benchrest, with people always buying single-shot rifles), but since it came up here, I have to ask: WHY?
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I dont mind cuz its interesting, and relevent info. So please contiune....
At the range I find that when you good lax and take you time, you will do very well with either reload or Factory Ammo, it all about breath and concentration and taking you time be shoot to find out where your round impacting, is very important even when you have a spotter.
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redman, less parts ratteling around is a good thing. On a repeater, removing the mag box and follower then gluing in a single shot follwer is a good idea, which btw, people seem to put off because they like to think that someday they will use that mag Usually a match reload won't fit into a factory mag anyway. Some don't want their bullet tips to get dinged up either and a few worry about changing seating depth.
Usually a match reload won't fit into a factory mag anyway. Some don't want their bullet tips to get dinged up either and a few worry about changing seating depth.On my Tubb 2000 I run a 10 rnd mag but has the ability to use a 20 rnd magazine I use the mag during matches,the magazine is an efficient method of loading your rifle under time restriction that I have observed in some matches .
If your action is not true then you will never get the barrel onto the action straight. That is the whole idea of trueing the action in the first place so that the action face and threads are the same as the barrel tenon and threads.
If you are going to spend the money on a top quality barrel, why put it on crooked?
That is another big thing when loading single round, Some don't want there bullet tip to dinged up as it loaded in to the chamber from magazine.
I agree totally with action that need to be true if they are not true already from factory.
I got several rifles build already, and the action start out as a cheap SPS rifle, and never see one that are out align, there action are CNC now are day, so in my opinion they are already true, to the action thread, most of them do need alittle square up in front of the thread where the recoil lug set, but other wise there is no need for truing, the biggest problem is putting the barrel on straight.
There is more to truing an action that just the barrel/action junction. Bolt face alignment, firing pin alignment, bolt lugs and integral lugs and even timing are all generally quite crude on new actions and correcting this can make a big difference to long-range accuracy. A trued Remngton action can be every bit as good as a custom, in fact I have spent my last nickel on Nesika or BAT actions. Trued Remy all the way.
Some are easier to true than others ie: Remington vs. Browning or Weatherby, and one in awhile, the stars align and a Remington action comes from the factory with good tolerances, but the majority most certainly do not.
Go to youtube and research "Action Truing". there are some excellent gunsmithing videos that show exactly where the factory action needs truing.
Some are easier to true than others ie: Remington vs. Browning or Weatherby, and one in awhile, the stars align and a Remington action comes from the factory with good tolerances, but the majority most certainly do not.
Go to youtube and research "Action Truing". there are some excellent gunsmithing videos that show exactly where the factory action needs truing.
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I saw a few that are already defected, when shooter couldn't even hit a plate at 100meter. and as result are returning to the manufacture.
I don't doubt what you saying that there are more to true an action than just the action and barrel, there is more than beneath the eye, that why some of the more serious shooter are going to custom action, I believe that would be the best thing as a good investment for the long term shooting sport, but for many other whom have just starting the sport that type of Accuracy is not needed, there is other mistake that needed to correct, and this require range time, the biggest problem when come to hitting target at short, medium are shooter mistake, meaning that the mistake due to experience, and this experience need to be master before going into long range.
I don't doubt what you saying that there are more to true an action than just the action and barrel, there is more than beneath the eye, that why some of the more serious shooter are going to custom action, I believe that would be the best thing as a good investment for the long term shooting sport, but for many other whom have just starting the sport that type of Accuracy is not needed, there is other mistake that needed to correct, and this require range time, the biggest problem when come to hitting target at short, medium are shooter mistake, meaning that the mistake due to experience, and this experience need to be master before going into long range.
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I never understood why some shooters do that; I was gonna start a thread on this (which I especially notice in benchrest, with people always buying single-shot rifles), but since it came up here, I have to ask: WHY?
The theory is that a singleshot action (bolt action) is stiffer than a repeater.
Technically this is correct, but how much relevance it has to accuracy can be debated. Like many things to do with precision rifles there are divided opinions, this is 1 of them.
My own precision rifles are all repeaters, but unless like Savage points out you are in a timed competition where the repeater can be used for a benefit, I single load my rifles as well, for a few reasons. 1 st is that I can long seat my ammo beyond the length the magazine will allow, this will usually improve accuracy, especially with ULD type bullets. 2nd I take at least 1 minute between shots, so do not want to have ammo in the rifle while on the firing line that I am not going to use right away. This is just a personal safety thing.
3rd with a mag hanging out the bottom of the stock, my rifle does not ride the bags well. I am not a BR shooter, but the 1s I know all run singleshots strictly for that reason, to have a totally flat smooth surface for the rifle to move over the bags with.
I am sure there are other reasons, hope that helps some.
redman, less parts ratteling around is a good thing. On a repeater, removing the mag box and follower then gluing in a single shot follwer is a good idea, which btw, people seem to put off because they like to think that someday they will use that mag
With all due respect, that sounds like old wive's tales, or just some benchrester's hair-splitting habit that became popularized
. You're telling me that for over a century of centrefire cartridges, no one came up with a feeding system that won't ding the bullet tip? Come on...I've loaded soft-point hunting bullets into my rifle (whose action was designed some 15 years ago!) with a mag and they never came out dented... I've gone to ranges where loading one at a time was mandatory and when it wasn't and never noticed the difference (with target ammo). I believe that if you buy a decent rifle with a modern feeding system, you don't have to go through the trouble of loading one round at a time...
Anyway, that's been my experience - I believe the expression is "YMMV"
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(mag) Feeding depends on many things, including most importantly, what cartridge is being fed! 40 degree shoulders don't generally feed very well, long VLD bullets don't feed very well, short fat cartridges don't feed very well, yadda yadda.
Conical bolt faces (and their reciprocal concave breech face) help with feeding to some degree but many cartridges were designed with mag or belt feeding in mind (30-06, .308, 5.56X45) and some were definitely not (6BR).
I suppose this is why there aren't very many 6BR's in tactical matches where accuracy AND mag feeding are important.
Conical bolt faces (and their reciprocal concave breech face) help with feeding to some degree but many cartridges were designed with mag or belt feeding in mind (30-06, .308, 5.56X45) and some were definitely not (6BR).
I suppose this is why there aren't very many 6BR's in tactical matches where accuracy AND mag feeding are important.
You know what? I hadn't thought of that at all (the angle of the shoulder) and it makes total sense. Looks like I've got some reading up to do on BR shooting (which remains quite mystical to me...). It's still an engineering problem and there has to be some system that could be designed to accomplish mag feeding with those casings and bullet lengths.
Thanks for clearing that up. Now back to your regulary scheduled thread. Sorry for hijack.
Thanks for clearing that up. Now back to your regulary scheduled thread
. Sorry for hijack.
"You're telling me that for over a century of centrefire cartridges, no one came up with a feeding system that won't ding the bullet tip? Come on..."
Some magazine systems do indeed have ribbed sides that prevent bullet tip damage. Those systems work, but generally only for the cartridge they were designed for or something similar. Change the cartridge to one with a different body taper and/or shoulder angle, and then the ribs are in the wrong place or are the wrong dimension, and the mag doesn't work or doesn't work reliably anymore. It makes rifle design and planning more interesting, and tends to keep Kevin Tenthumbs from doing the work (sometimes, hence "bubba"). FWIW - dan
Some magazine systems do indeed have ribbed sides that prevent bullet tip damage. Those systems work, but generally only for the cartridge they were designed for or something similar. Change the cartridge to one with a different body taper and/or shoulder angle, and then the ribs are in the wrong place or are the wrong dimension, and the mag doesn't work or doesn't work reliably anymore. It makes rifle design and planning more interesting, and tends to keep Kevin Tenthumbs from doing the work (sometimes, hence "bubba"). FWIW - dan
BR shooters use single shot bolt action rifles because the single shot actions are more rigid and will make a more consistent, more easily tuned rifle. At BR levels of required precision, repeater actions are not likely to work as well or as easily.
Modern BR shooters use modern custom actions for a couple of reasons. First, todays custom BR actions are very precisely made and provide an excellent starting point. Second, today's BR shooter really likes his gadgets. He likes to have the latest thing and takes considerable pride in the ownership of a fine custom action. If said action is somewhat difficult to obtain, so much the better!
Trued Remingtons can work just as well as the customs but without the snob appeal (no offence intended to the custom action owners out there)
Long range shooting actually levels the playing field somewhat as far as equipment is concerned. A rifle used at long range can be competitive if it shoots 1/2 moa or even worse. At short range, a 1/2 moa rifle is an object of sympathy if not ridicule.
An action which is reasonably true can work as the foundation for a 1/4 moa rifle which will be a potential winner at long range and not too embarassing at short range. Regards, Bill.
Modern BR shooters use modern custom actions for a couple of reasons. First, todays custom BR actions are very precisely made and provide an excellent starting point. Second, today's BR shooter really likes his gadgets. He likes to have the latest thing and takes considerable pride in the ownership of a fine custom action. If said action is somewhat difficult to obtain, so much the better!
Trued Remingtons can work just as well as the customs but without the snob appeal (no offence intended to the custom action owners out there)
Long range shooting actually levels the playing field somewhat as far as equipment is concerned. A rifle used at long range can be competitive if it shoots 1/2 moa or even worse. At short range, a 1/2 moa rifle is an object of sympathy if not ridicule.
An action which is reasonably true can work as the foundation for a 1/4 moa rifle which will be a potential winner at long range and not too embarassing at short range. Regards, Bill.
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Many BR competitions only allow single feeding so mags are not possible even if you wanted to use them.
Most BR shooters use very low neck tension with long seated bullets. Running these through a mag will likely cause all manner of excitement due to bullet set back.
As was said, we tend to run very long OAL's to max case capacity. These rds don't normally fit in mags.
Staggered feed mags and some action styles will not feed sharp shouldered rds well.
Now saying all that, there is a solution to solving all the functioning issues above. The CENTER FEED MAG run through a push feed action.
CF mags from AI and Savage allow you to run sharp shouldered, no taper cases without issue. Their alignment with the chamber negates the bouncing that occurs when bullets are driven up a loading ramp. Almost a straight shot into the chamber.
Blasers use a similar mag set up. Not sure about the Tikka but it is described as CF?????
Short stubby cartridges can be made to feed if the mag is properly blocked. Yes, a 6BR WILL feed out of a Savage 308 CF mag if blocked.
With standard neck tensions, VLD bullets can also be run without set back issues during the feeding process.
Also, longer OAL's can be accomodated in the Savage SA mags which can hold rds at 2.95".
So there are solutions to those that want to use 1/4 min accurate wildcats in mag fed rifles.
Jerry
Most BR shooters use very low neck tension with long seated bullets. Running these through a mag will likely cause all manner of excitement due to bullet set back.
As was said, we tend to run very long OAL's to max case capacity. These rds don't normally fit in mags.
Staggered feed mags and some action styles will not feed sharp shouldered rds well.
Now saying all that, there is a solution to solving all the functioning issues above. The CENTER FEED MAG run through a push feed action.
CF mags from AI and Savage allow you to run sharp shouldered, no taper cases without issue. Their alignment with the chamber negates the bouncing that occurs when bullets are driven up a loading ramp. Almost a straight shot into the chamber.
Blasers use a similar mag set up. Not sure about the Tikka but it is described as CF?????
Short stubby cartridges can be made to feed if the mag is properly blocked. Yes, a 6BR WILL feed out of a Savage 308 CF mag if blocked.
With standard neck tensions, VLD bullets can also be run without set back issues during the feeding process.
Also, longer OAL's can be accomodated in the Savage SA mags which can hold rds at 2.95".
So there are solutions to those that want to use 1/4 min accurate wildcats in mag fed rifles.
Jerry
