Not your typical bear defense thread
- Thread starter canuckjgc
- Start date
No arguement there and you'll see I said the same thing. Some people seem to equate penetration to stopping power and nothing could be further from the truth in a close range encounter. Give me a huge energy dump like offered up by the slug any day over some buck shot but it still doesn't change the fact that buckshot out penetrates a foster style slug in a test medium at close range. Penetration doesn't = stopping power..........
It's the fact that slugs don't over penetrate that makes them so effective in a close range encounter./
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If we were to compare equal velocity then an ounce and a quarter foster would have the same velocity as the buckshot load. Clearly 00 penetrates better than 4 Buck, and 000 better than 00 so it follows that as mass is increased so does penetration. Thus if the entire projectile weight is a unified solid mass, it would follow that penetration of that projectile is the longest.
Glazer Safety Slugs are a good choice when there can be absolutely no chance of over penetration. A varmint bullet will not penetrate a live target as deeply as a soft point big game bullets but it will out penetrate a Glazer. A soft point big game bullet out penetrates a varmint bullet, but the soft point big game bullet does not penetrate as deeply as the solid intended for big game.
We can't have it both ways. If the projectile looses mass, changes shape, or looses stability within the target, it cannot penetrate as deeply as one which retains its full weight, shape or stability.
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Providing they are the same shape, construction, etc....by that flawed logic a 180 grain varmint bullet would out penetrate a 140 grain TSX......... last time I looked, buckshot looked and performed different than a slug.
Now you've got it and hence the reason a buckshot pellet outpenetrates a slug......the slug changes shape and loses stability. It is that change of shape and loss of stability that equals the energy dump and hopefully stops the bear!
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I doubt that 180 gr varmint bullet would out penetrate a 140 gr TSX impacting at the same range, but if you can provide a for real 180 gr varmint bullet it might be interesting. For sure a 140 gr TSX out penetrates a 180 gr MK.
The expansion of the slug is nowhere near as detrimental to penetration in live tissue as is the projectile weight being divided into a dozen pieces, and particularly not if bones are hit.
Again we agree but again not overly relevant to this conversation!
Boomer, before you bring a bunch more irrelevant information to this discussion.....my only point is that a load of buckshot (00) going at the same velocity as a foster style slug, shot into a test medium at close range, will out penetrate the slug. Countless tests have proven this. This, however, does not mean 00 buck is more effective in a close range bear encounter. I'd still take a slug personally!
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The conversation had turned to the usefulness of buckshot and the circumstances that it is best used in, relevant to bear defense. I maintain that the choice to use buckshot prudently reduces the risk to other people should the shooting take place in an area where other people are present. The risk could be reduced further by choosing bird shot if you knew you would not shoot unless the bear was within contact range. In a situation where your shot presents no danger to anyone else, then it is prudent to choose the most effective big game load available, in the case of the 12 bore the Brenneke slug is arguably the most effective.
Ernie was a trapper and warden for the preserve...trapped beaver for relocation..he is mentioned in the book "Blackwater" by William Hillen a game warden and predator control officer based out of Williams lake....Ernie trapped a pair of beaver to put in stanley park. he was brought back to re trapp the pair cause Vancouverites never considered beavers falling there beloved trees.Ernie was also a bit of a gunsmith.
I met him in ollala BC when he was dying from cancer..
This has been an awesome thread guys, thanks! There seems to have been a major misunderstanding regarding the regs -- the part of Bowron Park that allows firearms is exactly where we are going, so no problem there.
I think what we do is practise over the winter with a shotgun, and if my wife is still uncomfortable (she says she is 'scared' of it right now!), then smartest move would be to leave it behind and load up on the bear spray.
I do note that some of you successfully got your wife to be comfortable shooting, so I hope I can do the same.
I still don't really understand the slug vs. buckshot debate though -- that one diagram seemed to indicate buckshot made a bigger permanent wound. We'll shoot both and see how it goes.
I think what we do is practise over the winter with a shotgun, and if my wife is still uncomfortable (she says she is 'scared' of it right now!), then smartest move would be to leave it behind and load up on the bear spray.
I do note that some of you successfully got your wife to be comfortable shooting, so I hope I can do the same.
I still don't really understand the slug vs. buckshot debate though -- that one diagram seemed to indicate buckshot made a bigger permanent wound. We'll shoot both and see how it goes.
