Do the Canadian Forces need a new pistol
- Thread starter x westie
- Start date
Now I am not a Glock fan by any stretch of the imagination (in fact, I hate them) but you have to take into account how many LEO's carry the Glock. If Sig or (god help me) M&P's were as prevalent then the number of ND's would likely be similar.
Words Twice
- Location
- BC, In a Van down by the river!
IMHO...all infantry soldiers should carry a pistol as back up. Also, IMHO I beleive it should be a Glock 17/19 or SW M&P 9 or 9compact or Sig 229. The days of a manual safety (especially in a combat pistol) are over. It's simple, just keep your friggin' finger off the trigger. I would carry it hot as well. No point in having to #### it if ####'s hittin' the fan. I can't see this happening in the Army and is probably one reason why the private contracting looks so good to some. If they don't issue the proper kit, and if you're not able to add appropriate/reasonable items on your own I can see the frustration. After all, it's his/her own ass...why can't they carry what they want (so long as the NATO ammo is used).
I agree -the days of the manual safety are long gone. I always carried my sig hot- it's ridiculous to even consider not carrying it hot-how else would you carry it? Your secondary weapon needs to be instantly available for transition if you experience a primary weapon failure. SFs are given a stipend for personal weapon purchase and/or modification. This is not possible for conventional forces for purely logistic reasons.
Last edited:
- Location
- BC, In a Van down by the river!
.JTF2 was the only other unit requested by Delta and SeAL teams in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I don't doubt it. I wish we knew more about them. The comment by "cyclone" (or sarcastic joke) didn't sit well with me when I read it.
- Location
- BC, In a Van down by the river!
You don't need new pistols, but you SHOULD have new one's that are high cap and don't have manual safeties. A little thread highjack here, but you also SHOULD have very few rifles with a 20in. barrel either anymore. The big green machine needs to embrace positive change.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
M&P maybe, Sig - I doubt it, just because of the weight and length of the trigger pull...
blake
Technically speaking, 13 rounds is hi-cap. Every other weapon the CF uses has a safety, why should a pistol be any different?
There is nothing wrong with a 20" barrel. The CF makes changes all the time in response to lessons learned in the field.
As you pointed out, this is a hijack topic. Start a new thread, "If you build it, they will come."
Words Twice
Last edited:
- Location
- BC, In a Van down by the river!
Because you don't need a safety on a pistol...and 20in. is heavy and long.
Although I am not a super Glock fan, the G19 would be an excellent buy for the price which is somewhere in the $250 range per pistol, SW might be able to match that which would give the option of a changable grip to the mix. SW might sell their M&P at a loss to get a large military contract.
This is not true, JTF2 and CSOR use Sigs-besides a secondary weapon is a holstered weapon-which is extremely safe. How many highly trained operators/Law enforcement agents have had issues of their pistols going off in their holsters? In combat fine motor skill diminishes greatly and if a transition to a secondary weapon is required, it needs to be immediate (ie no safety). By the way I have never heard anyone but target shooters complain of the initial DA trigger pull on the sig (only an observation not a criticism. I carried one for a few years and weight was never a problem. 9mm is a light round but is effective if place correctly-which comes from training-think SFs are wrong carrying MP5s, 9mm sigs etc?-I don’t think so. Keep your options open. If you want to complain about a light round, try the .223, for a main battle rifle. Having had the experiences/training I have had I wouldn't ever chose a polymer pistol nor one with a manual safety for my secondary weapon in a combat situation. I know I have rambled-sorry.
Last edited:
while you may not need it, according to you , THE SAFETY drill TAUGHT AND INSTALLED in EVERY MAN THAT'S EVER HANDLED A PISTOL with the possible exception of the russians and their allies- from my old days-
grasp pistol in right hand. insert mag in bottom of pistol( it's not p/c to use the word butt) , using the fingers of the left hand,pull the slide to the rear,(observe hammer to cocked pisition) push down on slide stop,( slide will go forward ) APPLY SAFETY, insert in holster, button flap- and that's the 1911
there are times when you DO NOT WISH TO FIRE A ROUND, IE TARGET BLACK,MISSION SCRUBBED OR INSERT WHATEVER NO SHOOT TERMINLOGY YOU LIKE and the weapon MUST BE RETURNED to the holster safely, NOT HOT- remember john browning DESIGNED THE 1911 WITHOUT A SAFETY, BUT THE ARMY MADE HIM PUT ONE ON
I don't think so....
I believe it was designed without a _thumb_ safety. The other measures, most specifically the grip safety, were believed adequate by the designer.
Yes, JTF2 uses Sigs. I have no experience with CSOR but will accept the possibility they use Sigs as well. The Canadian Army is small, these two groups are very small and train to a different standard. They have very little in common with average soldiers in the rest of the CF and shouldn't be used when drawing comparisons.
Words Twice
An ND, or negligent discharge, is seldom a result of a problem with the weapon. It is NEGLIGENCE.
A round being fired when you pull the trigger is a good thing. The trick is to train your boys to not pull the trigger until they have something in their sights they want to kill.
In the CF, pistols do have the highest incidence of NDs. That is because less training was provided on these firearms. That is slowly being remedied.
But yes. I want a pistol that can safely carry a round in the spout with no positive applied safety. A pistol like te Glock, or the sig P225s some pers carry.
Its pretty easy to teach a guy to use a pistol that has a slide catch, mag catch and a trigger as its only controls. That is why I advocate glocks for the forces. That and their price and ease of maintenance.
The speed with which a pistol can get 2 rounds out, right now, is the best test for a combat pistol. Prolonged engagements where a soldier is using his pistol are almost unheard of. Its a last ditch weapon for any soldier, in any roll, even if if its his or her only weapon. If it takes more than just a few shots to get you to safety, your odds are slim. Time is the crucial factor, that and reliability. A quality of Glock pistols that is unquestionable.
Have I personally carried?
Yes.
How fast can I get a BHP into play?
not fast enough for my liking.
Have the glocks I have owned suited my tastes better?
Hell yes.
Headspace?
........
Its SAMMI
