30-06 vs 308 ballistics and energy

[brotherjack]

You are so funny. I will take you along anytime with your 150 grain stuffed .308 to chase a wounded bear. I stand behind the 30-06 with 220 grain bullet and laugh hard..you will have time to think about bullet penetration then..

The .308 is at the end of it rope before the 30-06.

I never said it wasn't - I said that they are so close that there is zero practical difference to the animal with a 30 caliber + bullet expansion sized hole in his heart/lungs.

As to bears, I have hunted bears, actually - but never with a 308, only a 303 British (significantly less powerful than a 308). It killed them just as dead as dead gets, and never once did I recover a bullet (see above physics lesson on bullet diameter vs energy transfer), and never once was I ever nervous about the size of my gun when bear hunting with my old 303. I expect that if I was to take my lever-action 308 with the 220 grain Hornady loads I worked up for it, that it would kill bears just as dead as my old 303 did.

All that asside - my comment to which you were replying to was rude on my part, and for that I apologize. For pointing out the physics involved here, however, I make no apology.

 

[powder burner]

Because last time I looked, you couldn't buy 1,000 7mm bullets for reloading for $120. (or even $79 a thousand if you don't mind the relatively poor accuracy of Frontier CMJ's - they still work great for banging steel targets at the range).

True. however there is a tonne of .308 military brass that can be necked down to 7mm. They shoot fine.

 

[powder burner]

Maybe the cops just made a decision so they would not have to put up with hair splitting or how many angels can dance the head of a pin discussions

Funny you mention this. I know of a cop who uses 150gr winchester ammo who shoots moose with his .308 BLR

Cant get any deader than dead.

 

[Covey Ridge]

Funny you mention this. I know of a cop who uses 150gr winchester ammo who shoots moose with his .308 BLR

A BLR? You sure knock the wind out of pricedo's post that says "Maybe the cops know something we don't."

 

[Camper]

Funny how I always wanted my .300 Savage to measure up to a .308
sort of like measuring up a .308 to an 06.

it's like comparing apples to apples or bananas to bananas

.308 = Dead deer, dead bear , dead moose

30-06 = Really Dead deer, Really dead bear , Really dead moose

ect... ect... ect...

 

[Covey Ridge]

Long before the .308 became popular the .300 Savage was thought of as a very good moose cartridge.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

SMK? Do you mean Sierra Match Kings? For moose? That is the second time I have heard that suggestion. The other time being Noel from WSS. I am sure that it would work, and moose have been killed with less, but I thought Sierra did not recomend their match bullet for game?

Sierra does not recommend the Matchkings for hunting, nor does Hornady recommend their Amax bullets for hunting, but many of us long range shooters/hunters have found that they work very well.
I have killed many animals both here and in Africa using SMKs.
My doe last weekend was shot at 700 yards away, the shot was placed at the base of her skull, all I had left to cut was the wind pipe and a bit of skin to make her headless.
There is alot more on the use of match bullets on longrangehunting forum.

 

[Covey Ridge]

There is alot more on the use of match bullets on longrangehunting forum.

I am sure there is.

 

[Foxer]

Janeau, I really think you're selling the 308 short here (and no pun intended )

Sure, as i said in my original post handloads are a little different. But using factory ammo there really isn't as much difference as you're suggesting. Like i said, you get about the same hitting power but lose about 50 yards-ish with the 308.

I mean - would you take a poke at a moose with a 30-06 at 300 yards? I sure as heck would and i'd expect it to roll over and play dead pretty quick. Well - there's absolutely no difference between that shot and hitting a moose at 250 with most factory loads. (and hornady does make a light mag for the 308 as well).

IF you pick a decent bullet and such the 308 just doesn't lose much to the 30-06. And remember - i shoot a 30-06, i'm not trying to defend 'my cartridge of choice' or anything.

At most you might want to keep your max range 40 or 50 yards less than you would with a 30-06, but that's still way out there even for moose!

 

[bobbyjack]

Also let's not forget when the 7.62X51(.308 Win)was introduced the .45acp pistol was the sidearm of the time,and a worn out necked rifle cartridge could be cut down and you had a .45acp case!

Bo)

 

[Calum]

Overall methinks it is comes down to the platform itself.
Ie the make and model of the rifle, and how it fits you.

 

[powder burner]

A BLR? You sure knock the wind out of pricedo's post that says "Maybe the cops know something we don't."

They know a lot of things we probably dont wanna know, LOL

 

[sheephunter]

That's not entirely true. Even if two cartridges are loaded to the same velocity, the one using the most powder will recoil more. Normally when doing the recoil calculation, half of powder weight is added to the bullet weight, but even that adjustment doesn't seem to reflect the perceived difference.

Guessing you knew what I meant!

 

[Covey Ridge]

Also let's not forget when the 7.62X51(.308 Win)was introduced the .45acp pistol was the sidearm of the time,and a worn out necked rifle cartridge could be cut down and you had a .45acp case!

Bo)

Well, I am not sure what this has to do with this discussion, but it is an interesting bit of trivia. If you can cut down a .308 and make a .45 acp, then one should be able to cut down an 06 and do the same thing? When cut down, what one can do the other can do. I think that both were often used in the early day of the 44 auto mag?

 

[rdelliott]

So to summarize, if I understand correctly, it's possible to stuff more powder into a .30-06, due to its larger case, to the point where a maximally overcharged .30-06 handload will make a louder bang when it blows up your rifle than a max overcharged .308?

And once we're into the realm of loadings that won't blow your face off when fired, or far worse, damage your valuable firearm (hey, flesh heals; metal doesn't), it's possible to wring a little more energy out of a .30-06 than it is out of a .308?

And hasn't it been conclusively demonstrated through over a century of documented cases of people bringing home dinner that the lower-powered .303 British is sufficient to kill everything that walks on this continent, not to mention Nazis, and some soft-skinned vehicles as well, although it's probably not quite enough gun for hunting garbage trucks?

Sounds like we're having one of those Cate Blanchett vs. Gwynneth Paltrow arguments to me .

 

[Boomer]

So to summarize, if I understand correctly, it's possible to stuff more powder into a .30-06, due to its larger case, to the point where a maximally overcharged .30-06 handload will make a louder bang when it blows up your rifle than a max overcharged .308?

And once we're into the realm of loadings that won't blow your face off when fired, or far worse, damage your valuable firearm (hey, flesh heals; metal doesn't), it's possible to wring a little more energy out of a .30-06 than it is out of a .308?

And hasn't it been conclusively demonstrated through over a century of documented cases of people bringing home dinner that the lower-powered .303 British is sufficient to kill everything that walks on this continent, not to mention Nazis, and some soft-skinned vehicles as well, although it's probably not quite enough gun for hunting garbage trucks?

Sounds like we're having one of those Cate Blanchett vs. Gwynneth Paltrow arguments to me .

Or looking at it another way, if you can't do ity with the .308, you probably can't do it with the .30/06 or a .300 magnum either.

 

[powder burner]

probably a little off topic, but when was the .303 case developed? Just wanted to know as the .30-06 is 102 yrs old.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

probably a little off topic, but when was the .303 case developed? Just wanted to know as the .30-06 is 102 yrs old.

303 British was developed as a black power cartridge in the 1880s, adopted by the British military in 1889

 

[TheTooner]

...Sounds like we're having one of those Cate Blanchett vs. Gwynneth Paltrow arguments to me .

Cate Blanchett vs. Gwyneth Paltrow - In mud or in jello?

 

[rdelliott]

Cate Blanchett vs. Gwyneth Paltrow - In mud or in jello?

The guys around here would probably want extensive testing and comparative analysis of both options, which, come to think of it, would not be a bad idea at all .