XCR vs Sig classic green

LOL BS? okay bud. why would i post BS and waste my time and others. it was remington UMC ammo 45 grain jacketed hollow point. i wouldn't lie about it either. what's the point. i am NOT saying classic greens are sh*t all i am saying is mine did that at the range. no idea why. maybe it just didn't like that ammo.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just as i posted above but i know which is better for me and trying to let other know that swiss arms arn't the only good non-restricted "black rifle"


This was something i knew would happen by posting my experience with BOTH rifles, and i knew there would be childish accusations of BS and garbage like that. This is one reason i keep to the background and just read. so thanks for confirming that.
 
i am not saying that the rod was in perfectly i didnt check. i sold it after that because i wanted to go the XCR route anywho.
so sure it could be that.
 
evan_880 said:
LOL BS? okay bud. why would i post BS and waste my time and others. it was remington UMC ammo 45 grain jacketed hollow point. i wouldn't lie about it either. what's the point. i am NOT saying classic greens are sh*t all i am saying is mine did that at the range. no idea why. maybe it just didn't like that ammo.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just as i posted above but i know which is better for me and trying to let other know that swiss arms arn't the only good non-restricted "black rifle"


This was something i knew would happen by posting my experience with BOTH rifles, and i knew there would be childish accusations of BS and garbage like that. This is one reason i keep to the background and just read. so thanks for confirming that.
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Your happy with your XCR. That's the main thing.

Well, that. And the fact that every now and then you'll get the odd genius response for your efforts. :rolleyes:

Thank God its not Sunday anymore. That's my day for people living in their mom's basement to sideswipe my posts and call me an idiot and poser. I can only offer this solace, that I now look forward to the s**t and abuse on the upcoming weekends.

You'll adjust too.





Weird with the Classic Green though. I've never heard of so many failures on any gun that wasn't broken. I think the main point from Swiss Arms owners is that if it isn't miraculously broken right out of the box, its not likely TO fail for many thousands of hard rounds.

Like Rich suggested, it might best have been referred for repair/replacement?

If, as some have suggested, it was due to some form of improper assembly, I'd pretty much bet that it functioned flawlessly as designed for many thousands more rounds after remedial dis-assembly and re-assembly.


Cheers.
 
UncleWalther said:
Is it possible to install the piston rod incorrectly? I've never tried. I have seen a gas valve stuck in place, because it was installed incorrectly. It was a ##### to remove.
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I can't even imagine a way that my Carbine could be assembled incorrectly. Its nearly soldier-proofed.

But hey, stranger things have happened...
 
i was with evan when his swiss jammed and it jammed for me about twice out 25 round with the UMC ammo. The others that were with us had the same thing
i was a bit surprised considering what i had heard.
The XCR had one failure to eject that i recall, out of 250 rounds of the same ammo>
Not to knock the Swiss but thats just what happened.

The thing i like most about the XCR over the swiss was the ergonomics. It felt lighter and balenced better. All the controls were in the perfect position for me.(everything it right at your index finger) and i also felt the trigger was better.

As far as sights go i would give the Swiss the better of the two. The ones on the XCR leave much to be desired IMO. So from a bench the Swiss really seems to have the edge, especially with the bipod. But resting the XRC made a big difference.

Just my $0.02
 
ya i dont think it was assembled wrong. it wouldnt work if it was. it may have just been a bit dirty or had some weird flaw that time. im sure a take down and reassembly would of done the trick.
 
sprint said:
I can't even imagine a way that my Carbine could be assembled incorrectly. Its nearly soldier-proofed.

But hey, stranger things have happened...
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The piston rod spins and if you don't ensure the notch is lined up it will jam. It is almost idiot proof but if you aren't paying attention or don't know any better.
 
cjs said:
The piston rod spins and if you don't ensure the notch is lined up it will jam. It is almost idiot proof but if you aren't paying attention or don't know any better.
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Lol - yeah I know.

But the whole 'beveled notch' sort of gave it away to me. You know. How it all more or less matches up with the beveled notch in the removable cocking handle?

I figured dumb easy...



I really think Evan needs a chance to clarify if it was BNIB, or if he disassembled it.

If it truly was assembled incorrectly, it really does illustrate need for test after assembly procedure.


*####. Now you've got me. I've got to go and TRY to assemble incorrectly to see if it can even be done.
 
The thing is San has rigorous procedures and includes the test target. Anyways, that's my theory :). The notch placement is pretty easy heh. I think he deserves a chance to clarify things too.
 
sprint said:
*f**k. Now you've got me. I've got to go and TRY to assemble incorrectly to see if it can even be done.
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Tested.

Dude, I can't even deliberately assemble my Carbine that way. The machining on the recesses on the piston rod and the cocking handle align in such a way that it would appear impossible.

Is this possibly different on the Classic Green?



Not calling anyone a liar. I'm genuinely interested at this point, because a potentially systematic failure on improper assly of a SAN gun would actually be worthy of a sticky. Maybe a few of you can grab your rifles and give this a whirl for a few minutes. Maybe its just a spatial relations problem 'special' to me?

I'd like to see photos and a list of symptoms and tests for an improperly assembled gun.



Thanks nonetheless for the incentive to take another opportunity to play with my Carbine prior to bed time. God is it smooth like butter.
 
sprint said:
Tested.

Dude, I can't even deliberately assemble my Carbine that way. The machining on the recesses on the piston rod and the cocking handle align in such a way that it would appear impossible.

Is this possibly different on the Classic Green?


Not calling anyone a liar. I'm genuinely interested at this point, because a potentially systematic failure on improper assly of a SAN gun would actually be worthy of a sticky.

I'd like to see photos and a list of symptoms and tests for an improperly assembled gun.
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On the classic green it can be done. The rod just has to be turned slightly, ever so slightly - it is very subtle. It happened to me once. It would jam periodically.

This was in after my first few days with it in July - I had cleaned it in a hurry and not paid attention. The next day at the range I was going wtf... 2 minutes later I had it apart and then realized what I had done.

If it is correctly done it is rock solid. 3000+ rounds since then and no issues other than perfection. Out of my experience I learned a lot and basically feel 100% confident that I will always clean and assemble it perfectly :)
 
cjs said:
On the classic green it can be done. The rod just has to be turned slightly, ever so slightly - it is very subtle. It happened to me once. It would jam periodically.

This was in after my first few days with it in July - I had cleaned it in a hurry and not paid attention. The next day at the range I was going wtf... 2 minutes later I had it apart and then realized what I had done.

If it is correctly done it is rock solid. 3000+ rounds since then and no issues other than perfection. Out of my experience I learned a lot and basically feel 100% confident that I will always clean and assemble it perfectly :)
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Were there any tactile signs that it was improperly assembled?

Ie - on rearward motion of the bolt upon cocking there is a significantly increased, atypical resistance?
 
sprint said:
Were there any tactile signs that it was improperly assembled?

Ie - on rearward motion of the bolt upon cocking, there is increased, atypical resistance?
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Nope - looked and acted perfectly. When I clean it at home I always #### and do a dry fire just to make sure all is well. It passed everything, but basically would jam instead of ejecting the brass.

Was really subtle. I was new to it, and the angle was very subtle... it turned when I was fiddling with the front piece - um... getting tired here... the adjustable thing you turn to Position 1 or II for the regular or extra exhaust/release of the piston operation.

Could go get the manual but everything is locked up.
 
Wow.

Again, sorry for my disbelief. Incredulity? Almost grasping for the right word to describe it because I've never heard of nor seen any such failure. I cannot imagine a fault in tolerances or design that introduces such a failure.

Its a bit like being told that Santa Claus is a drunk in a cheap red suit. 99.9% of the time its just not true, but then some poor kid winds up getting felt up while telling 'Mall Santa' what he wanted for Christmas.



I'd really like to see photos or, even better, a video.

If it is a legitimate condition, we'd be well served to identify it accurately.


Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
 
As an engineer I don't think it is a design flaw. The manual is clear and the parts are all individually bullet proof. If you bungle the instructions, ignore the photos and defy reason and common sense like I did. You can make anything hiccup. Working as intended in my opinion. :)
 
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