Home defence For my Wife

[DATAM]

I remember reading some time ago that a dog is an invaluable alarm system. For protection the dog might slow someone down, but is not an ideal protector.

If your wife has access to a firearm, she can protect herself and the dog.

The sign on the door is "never mind the dog, beware of the owner"

 

[1899]

If you're a dog person you don't know how much you depend on your pal to warn you of a problem or deal with it if he needs to, until you loose him. Our house, cabin and vehicles were secure when Shadow was here. On the land he would alert us to bears and wolves. You can't buy that level of security and dedication. In time we'll replace him, but its too early yet, maybe next summer. I'm leaning towards a Shiloh Shepherd.

That is true. Have you considered a Bouvier De Flandes? It may do well up there as it has a fairly heavy coat.

 

[Boomer]

There was a Bouvier up here, but I'm a lab and shepherd guy. I considered a Turkish Akbash for a while (think of a 32" 180 pound white lab), but I prefer darker colors. The Shiloh Shepherds are a recreation of the German Shepherd of 50 years ago, taller and heavier without the hip problems that plague the Americanized GSDs that have been bred to a lighter leaner standard. The Shilos were developed in the States by Tina Barber in 1962, and there are atleast 2 breeders in Canada.

 

[ganymede]

Home defense in Canada? if you even pull a gun on an intruder you'd probably get 5-10 year

Sad but true. What a truly sad state of affairs when a scumbags right to life is paramount to the victims right to life. I think what's even more sad is that a good number of people on this message board just seem to accept this as fact and do not seem to express any sort of indignation. Call me crazy but if someone is trying to hurt someone or their family, they should be allowed to use the most effective tool as possible to defend themselves. Whatever happens to the scumbag on the receiving end of whatever weapon the victim decides to use should be of little or no consequence. Another thing - I do not agree with using a dog as a form of self defense. My dogs are like my kids and would not want them to put themselves in harms way to protect me. The way I see it, the lives of my dogs is more important than any criminal who may try to hurt me or my family.

Reminds me of this quote by the late Jeff Cooper:

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure—and in some cases I have—that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy

 

[hane6661]

the sad fact is that even if your wife did defend her self, she would be faceing criminal charges and you would also be looking at some unsafe storage charges unless location permits. keep in mind that chances are good that things will work out in your favor in court but in the mean time its a stay in jail for the miss and some heafty legal bills. canadians dont have the right to defend our selves with a firearm unless the attacker has a gun even then its iffy..


that being said a big dog and a 12 gage pump is a good combo

 

[CanAm]

the sad fact is that even if your wife did defend her self, she would be faceing criminal charges and you would also be looking at some unsafe storage charges unless location permits. keep in mind that chances are good that things will work out in your favor in court but in the mean time its a stay in jail for the miss and some heafty legal bills. canadians dont have the right to defend our selves with a firearm unless the attacker has a gun even then its iffy..


that being said a big dog and a 12 gage pump is a good combo

So what. I am so tired of this argument. It is about saving lives. Time and time again we see that we do have the right to use a gun for defense.

 

[puterbrother]

357 double action revolver loaded with 38 hollow points.Learn to shoot it double action.That long trigger pull will also reduce the likely hood of shots going off accidently under pressure.

 

[got to go]

Why not a Rottweiler ??? A Big Nasty dog will be a strong first line defence. They will know there's trouble around long before a human. As far a a firearm goes any semi auto pistol/rifle with hollow points should work.

 

[rivetc78]

Which house is it?

Make a complaint of them burning without a permit.... Heheheheheh]

 

[pricedo]

So what. I am so tired of this argument. It is about saving lives. Time and time again we see that we do have the right to use a gun for defense.

I've got the official "Canadian CCW Compromise" weapon under my bed at all times.

An original "Louisville Slugger" baseball bat.

For close quarters home invader taming it can't be beat.

Legal classification: kid's toy

 

[manbearpig]

as bad as home defense/firearms politics are in Canada, i would think the case of a petite, disabled woman shooting armed evil drug-dealing home invaders would go pretty well for her

 

[CatfishSteve]

did some of you guys recommending dogs miss what the OP wrote?

dogs arent for everyone.



as for the .22lr thing:

there is no guarantee that 22LR will kill a person, much less someone pumped full of drugs and adrenaline. ive seen one pound prairie dogs and squirrels shot with .22LR survive long enough to run fifty yards, are you going to trust it to stop a 200lb human being?



as for the .410:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/12 gauge.html

you are essentially firing a third (or less) as much lead at your assailant with a .410. both barrels of a .410 coach gun as was recommended would pack less stopping power than a single 2 3/4" reduced recoil 12ga round (of which she would have 3-8 more in a pump or semi), and if they missed or failed to stop shed be in big trouble. yes a .410 coach gun is better than nothing, but its far from ideal.

if the op already had one (.22 or .410), and due to budget constraints had to use only what was available, then sure use it. but he is asking what he should specifically go out and BUY - and as such a .22lr and .410 are really bad choices.

The 410 is Ideal because it is controlable and a 100lbs woman can shoot it reguarly without being scared of it. (thats what my wife is set up with). Thus gaing profiency. And no one is going to dispute the stopping power of the 45 colt or 410 slug being up their with one stop shots of all the calibres according to evan marshall. On top of that there is no possibility of a jam. I wont go down the .22lr road although I believe it is an effective weapon, just as an ice pick can do the same job a 308 can provided placement of the projectile

 

[ykkid]

The challenge with providing a loved one with a firearm for self defence is that the initiative must be hers. And, if you guide her through R/PAL classes, shooting classes, buying a gun, dry practice, and on-going competency training of all aspects of appropriate defensive response, it may still come down to - will she shoot? If the idea comes from her, she has probably partly thought this out. But, if she says she wants a gun to scare, intimidate or warn a potential assailant, then lock up your gun safe and hide the key. The old saw above that the sound of a pump shotty racking is enough to deter any intruder is an example of the normal human mistake of extending your civilized, rational logic on a creature who is un-civilized, irrationale, depraved, and perhaps even excited by the idea of a victim fighting back.

But, if your loved one has clearly expressed that she thinks assailants should be stopped by lethal force, wishes she had that capability, and has demonstrated in training that she can judge when such force is justifed, and more important, when such force is not justifed, the she will get along fine with a 12 ga. pump Knox Recoil reducer, and managed recoil buckshot. And, if the unthinkable ever happens, she will survive the psychological turmoil of taking a human live or permanently disabling a human being, albeit not without normal regret and distress.

 

[w squared]

First, practice practice practice.

often one forgets to cycle a pump/lever gun under stress. practice

borrow as many guns as you gan and take a trip to the range or better yet the wood (fewer eyes on her while she learns = fewer nerves). Try each type and see which she prefers. Then practice.

+1 on Massad Ayoob

yes, Yes, YES!

If she is not proficient with the firearm, it may well be used against her. Even if it isn't, understand that her performance under stress will be at a LOWER standard than her performance when practicing...not a higher one. If she's going to stop three hopheads that are orbiting on whatever cocktail of junk that they prefer, she needs to be able to put rounds on target in double-quick time.

Everybody and their dog (pun intended) has chimed in here, many without reading your initial post.

Find the one firearm that works best for her, and spend some money on putting rounds downrange. She will need to be proficient to put rounds where they need to be under stress. She cannot be proficient without practice - and probably lots of it.

If she's recoil shy, look at a strap-on recoil pad. She won't notice the recoil while under stress...but if she's worried about the pain every time she squeezes the trigger in a practice session you can bet she will develop a flinch.

Make sure that you practice loading and unloading as well - especially if you're dealing with an internal magazine. You need to do this lots to develop the muscle memory needed to feed rounds into a tube magazine in the dark. This is less of an issue with a removeable box mag, but still something that must be practiced.

I guess if she's willing to put in the practice a handgun might work...but a handgun in a caliber that will do the job properly will have it's own recoil issues (weighs less than a long gun so more felt recoil)

Also, don't rule out the Remington 7615. Non-restricted, pump action, .223 (very light recoil) and there are lots of folks that have gotten all sorts of "stopped" with a NATO standard .223

Putting a VERY bright flashlight on whatever you choose might also be a good idea. You don't want her firing at a silhouette...that just happens to be you. Other than a flashlight, you probably want to keep it as simple as possible...no Eotech sights that need to be turned on and then have the brightness adjusted.

 

[alexD92]

I don't know if you're still looking but have you given any thoughts to an M1 Carbine with maybe a non-restricted barrel and some hollow point rounds? Barely any recoil and at close range could be quite effective.

 

[dizzy]

So here it is... I live in a rural area and there are only a few houses nearby but One i'm sure is being used for a Marijuana grow op. Due to limited resources and what not the RCMP can't really take action on an empty house and not get any charges. Boils down to this. My wife is scared that something bad may happed, though I feel her fear is unfounded, she would be more comfortable with a defence gun available. She is petite and has previous back and neck injuries so a .12 guage is out. Is a .410 or .20 suitable for home defence? Smaller the better, what would you recomend on the cheap?

Don't forget to have the local utility companies check into things also, if they think they are being stolen from I think they have a right to go on the property to check if you have photo evidence or anything that can justify them going on the property it may be worth a shot you need to chase the lice away!

 

[manbearpig]

IMHO with an extended magazine on a shotgun i really dont think you need to be focusing on combat reloading drills with her

focus on accuracy and proper cycling/not short-stroking. IMO most of her time should be spent at the range bringing the gun up quickly/disengaging the safety and hitting 25/50yd gongs in quick succession. home defense ranges are much shorter than this but practicing by firing at something 5 yards away is absurd and unsafe.

if youre going to pick up a carbine like the 7615, then why not eliminate pumping entirely and get her a semi-auto. an SKS-D, IMO, would be better. in fact the more i think about it the better off i think shed be with a semi-auto (shotgun or carbine) like others have suggested - it eliminates short-stroking and other cycling problems. the odds of something like a well-maintained Mini-14 or SKS that spends its life in a bedroom actually failing on her are pretty low.... probably much lower than the odds of her short-stroking when shes under pressure. women generally tend to short-stroke a pump more than men because theyre more gentle with it.

 

[gmj]

Get here a Remington 870 Express 18" barrel in 20 gauge with the extension to accomidate the extra 3 shells, it will stop any intruder, its light and easy to manuver.

 

[BAITRON]

here you go:

but those are slugs - im in the buckshot camp.
personally, i would go with the 12 and just get her a heavier Express or a DA Grizzly, a dozen boxes of managed recoil 12ga. buckshot, and have her practiiiiiiiiice and familiarize herself with it so shes not fumbling under pressure.

once she familiarizes herself with it, its not like shes going to be shooting trap all day with it. its going to sit in the corner of the room or in the closet and hopefully never used. if she does use it, i doubt the amount of recoil will matter.

Legally it would have to sit locked with the ammunition separate...

 

[ykkid]

Watched a rather slightly built American doctor trying to run an extended mag 12 on a practical course. She was way behind the eight ball, not getting hits, and not staying on target. Eventually, a 20 was found for her. Her performance kicked right up, and, when she was finally convinced to leave the magazine partially empty, her became the 'man' to beat. When men refer to something as "light", we fail to recognize the incontrovertible fact that women have less upper body strength than do we. While introducing numerous women to long defensive guns, the unwieldliness of heavy - for them - shotguns and rifles prevent them becoming comfortable and therefore competent. A 20 ga pump, without an extended mag, is plenty for home defence. Missed shots stop no one. Solid hits with an express 20 ga buckshot load will stop any intruder not wearing body armour, and it will slow one wearing body armour enough to re-direct fire to the noggin. Four rounds in the tube, one in the chamber, and few mobs of drug crazed wacko's are going prevail. Of course, you could handicap our lady with a too heavy, over balanced "tactical" marvel, and have her shooting low, slow, and off target. Then, no numbr of rounds in the tube will save her.

Yeah, I kow she could embark on a year long upper body strength program but then, she could join a fire department. The lady of concern to the OP had issues already. Didn't sound like a candidate for "bulk it up, babe."