wow....its a STEN-PPSh-M60-RPD....thingy...
I suppose that is a non restricted??
Pretty damm cool despite all the drama attached to 'ole Spencer
########
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wow....its a STEN-PPSh-M60-RPD....thingy...
I suppose that is a non restricted??
Pretty damm cool despite all the drama attached to 'ole Spencer
b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
Nice, an LMG for oompa loompas
Yes non restricted.
They told him not to submit any more guns for testing, his response " tough titty"
There is an even more important precedent established with this gun than the non-restricted status.
The magazine housing brackets were salvaged from a cut Suomi receiver.
Previously this would have resulted in prohibited classification
The magazine housing brackets were salvaged from a cut Suomi receiver.
Previously this would have resulted in prohibited classification
NB.nagantsniper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- northern nb
all nice but im hoping for a soumi semi wich the ######## was playing with wayyyyy back
he ever get anything approve for that ??
he ever get anything approve for that ??
Yes non restricted.
They told him not to submit any more guns for testing, his response " tough titty"
Hahahah - sounds like it!
Spencer has asked me to wish everyone at CGN a very happy Christmas.
Haha - I like it, a lot.
It's not what you would think at the RCMP testing lab. There is the boss who is hardly ever there then an old guy under him,I think his name is Etter, he goes home at 3pm each day. There are two traines under etter who are not allowed to do anything when Etter is not there. There is only one guy who does the testing and non of them could figure out how to work the safety switches on a gun Spencer submited for testing. Spencer told them he would "expect a more professional serivce from Laurel and Hardy "
I cannot imagine anyone manufacturing a firearm with an unmarked safety. Or a manufacturer's liability insurance provider allowing an unmarked safety.
The Sten selector is originally marked "A" and "R" for automatic and repetition. Push A for auto, R for semi auto.
As you know, Spencer converts the selector into a safety. Rotate it one way, and the tripping lever is cammed out of contact with the sear, and pulling the trigger will not fire the gun, rotate it back, and the tripping lever can engage the sear. This is no doubt one of the features he intends to patent.
A selector marked A and R which would normally be pushed left and right, but is actually a safety which has to be rotated to engage, but which is unmarked for the safety function would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not only should it be marked, it should also be detented, so it cannot be accidentally disengaged.
I have a friend is a retired firearms industry engineer and designer who has testified as an expert witness in over 40 firearms related court cases. I'll run the scenario past him for his opinion.
The Sten selector is originally marked "A" and "R" for automatic and repetition. Push A for auto, R for semi auto.
As you know, Spencer converts the selector into a safety. Rotate it one way, and the tripping lever is cammed out of contact with the sear, and pulling the trigger will not fire the gun, rotate it back, and the tripping lever can engage the sear. This is no doubt one of the features he intends to patent.
A selector marked A and R which would normally be pushed left and right, but is actually a safety which has to be rotated to engage, but which is unmarked for the safety function would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not only should it be marked, it should also be detented, so it cannot be accidentally disengaged.
I have a friend is a retired firearms industry engineer and designer who has testified as an expert witness in over 40 firearms related court cases. I'll run the scenario past him for his opinion.
Dear Sir:
Your ########, Sten, Mk3, Serial Number SS309CA, arrived at RCMP, Specialized Firearms Support Services Section (SFSS) by mail on 2009-09-22. Upon arrival it was removed from the shipping container and recorded prior to being placed in the queue for inspection. At this point it was noted that bolt was in the forward position and could not be moved to the rear. It was observed that the recoil spring had moved to pass between the bolt and the receiver tube. Once the spring was unthreaded from the bolt and removed, the bolt moved to the rear and can no longer move forward as the trigger appears to be disconnected from the sear.
As the trigger mechanism is sealed and the bolt handle is permanently fixed in place, we are unable to perform any testing with this model. Therefore this firearm is being returned to you for further repair/modification.
When you have completed whatever action is required to make this ########, Sten, Mk3, Serial Number SS309CA function, you may return it to Specialized Firearms Support Services Section.
Regards
Bill Etter
Dear Mr Etter
This sten is equiped with a bolt handle safety and a sear disconnect safety. The bolt handle safety locks the bolt in the forward position until released by pulling the bolt handle outward. This safety is designed to prevent the gun from going off accidentally if dropped onto it's butt, or if the bolt handle gets snagged. It is this safety that initially prevented the gun from being cocked.
When the return spring was removed so too was the tension holding the bolt handle in place, this allowed it to return to it's firing position.
I can't see how it's possible for the return spring to become wedged between the bolt and the receiver tube.
The sear disconnect safety is activated and deactivated by turning the selector switch .
Before I shipped the gun to you I sent detailed photographs of the disconnect safety modifications to Mr Smith along with full instructions on how to use it. I also told him about the MkV cocking handle safety. I have made these modifications to give the gun effective safety features. I am pleased to note they work as intended.
If you click this link you will see a demonstration of the sear disconnect working.
http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/...=MVI_1294_1.flv
The links below show the details of the disconnect safety. I believe these are the pictures I previously sent to Mr Smith.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/...rd/IMG_1306.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/...rd/IMG_1308.jpg
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/...et/IMG_1490.jpg
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/...et/IMG_1491.jpg
Please don't send the gun back until you have checked that the safety mechanisms are not engaged.
Thanks
Mick
Your ########, Sten, Mk3, Serial Number SS309CA, arrived at RCMP, Specialized Firearms Support Services Section (SFSS) by mail on 2009-09-22. Upon arrival it was removed from the shipping container and recorded prior to being placed in the queue for inspection. At this point it was noted that bolt was in the forward position and could not be moved to the rear. It was observed that the recoil spring had moved to pass between the bolt and the receiver tube. Once the spring was unthreaded from the bolt and removed, the bolt moved to the rear and can no longer move forward as the trigger appears to be disconnected from the sear.
As the trigger mechanism is sealed and the bolt handle is permanently fixed in place, we are unable to perform any testing with this model. Therefore this firearm is being returned to you for further repair/modification.
When you have completed whatever action is required to make this ########, Sten, Mk3, Serial Number SS309CA function, you may return it to Specialized Firearms Support Services Section.
Regards
Bill Etter
Dear Mr Etter
This sten is equiped with a bolt handle safety and a sear disconnect safety. The bolt handle safety locks the bolt in the forward position until released by pulling the bolt handle outward. This safety is designed to prevent the gun from going off accidentally if dropped onto it's butt, or if the bolt handle gets snagged. It is this safety that initially prevented the gun from being cocked.
When the return spring was removed so too was the tension holding the bolt handle in place, this allowed it to return to it's firing position.
I can't see how it's possible for the return spring to become wedged between the bolt and the receiver tube.
The sear disconnect safety is activated and deactivated by turning the selector switch .
Before I shipped the gun to you I sent detailed photographs of the disconnect safety modifications to Mr Smith along with full instructions on how to use it. I also told him about the MkV cocking handle safety. I have made these modifications to give the gun effective safety features. I am pleased to note they work as intended.
If you click this link you will see a demonstration of the sear disconnect working.
http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/...=MVI_1294_1.flv
The links below show the details of the disconnect safety. I believe these are the pictures I previously sent to Mr Smith.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/...rd/IMG_1306.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/...rd/IMG_1308.jpg
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/...et/IMG_1490.jpg
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/...et/IMG_1491.jpg
Please don't send the gun back until you have checked that the safety mechanisms are not engaged.
Thanks
Mick
Early Stens only had the cocking handle notch as a safety. If the gun had a loaded magazine inserted, with the bolt foreward, it could be fired if jarred. This resulted in a number of unfortunate incidents, even though troops were instructed to never place a loaded magazine in the gun with the bolt foreward.
The Mk. IV and V cocking handles could be pushed in to lock the bolt closed, and this made the gun much safer. The recoil spring engaged the cocking handle as a detent to keep it in the locked or unlocked position. Later Stens were made with locking cocking handles, and almost all earlier ones were retrofitted. A Sten with one of the earlier patterns of cocking handles is a very rare gun. So by '45 almost all Stens had two unrelated safeties - the locking cocking handle, and the hook notch for the bolt handle when the gun was cocked.
Incidentally, while Spencer's selector safety does provide a safety device, by disengaging the trigger from the sear, the design is still not as safe as it could be. The trigger spring, engaging the tripping lever pawl and the trigger, is the only thing keeping the gun from firing, apart from friction between the sear and the bolt. It would be much better if the sear were locked in place, effectively preventing the bolt from moving. Trigger mechanism design is a liability minefield for manufacturers.
The Mk. IV and V cocking handles could be pushed in to lock the bolt closed, and this made the gun much safer. The recoil spring engaged the cocking handle as a detent to keep it in the locked or unlocked position. Later Stens were made with locking cocking handles, and almost all earlier ones were retrofitted. A Sten with one of the earlier patterns of cocking handles is a very rare gun. So by '45 almost all Stens had two unrelated safeties - the locking cocking handle, and the hook notch for the bolt handle when the gun was cocked.
Incidentally, while Spencer's selector safety does provide a safety device, by disengaging the trigger from the sear, the design is still not as safe as it could be. The trigger spring, engaging the tripping lever pawl and the trigger, is the only thing keeping the gun from firing, apart from friction between the sear and the bolt. It would be much better if the sear were locked in place, effectively preventing the bolt from moving. Trigger mechanism design is a liability minefield for manufacturers.
build your own and submit it.
And get it back three months later looking like this.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366096&page=5
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