Going to Hunt with a Silent Load... :)
- Thread starter Camp Cook
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I say we start taking up a collection to buy a small cow so CC can carry on with the research.
In the name of science, of course......
I like that idea but how about a small buffalo I should be up in the Peace (NW BC) this winter where there are private herds if the first quiet round doesn't drop it quickly I'll shoot it again with a 430gr WLNGC @ 1650fps...
I have been wanting to shoot a buffalo for a while now.
juanvaldez
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sudbury, Ontario
Actually this does not happen if you use the right foam product. CT sells a gap filling foam caulking backer rod in 25 ft lengths in various diameters. 1/2 inch works perfectly in 45/70. I have used this this stuff numerous times over unique and 2600. Just trim to length roll it like an ear plug and slide it into the case. The foam just kind of gets blasted into a powder with no deposit in the bore at all.
I say the first test shot goes into juanvaldez' rubber ducky, just to be sure.
We cut up a young steer yesterday, so I scooped some scraps for a bit of testing I thought might be fun and relevant to this thread
I don't have a 45/70 or 400 gr bullets, so couldn't duplicate CC's load of 400gr bullets @ 300fps, so instead I used my 45 COlt trapper with 300gr Hard cast bullets seated backwards, at 400fps. I'm not a fan of using energy to compare loads, but my load has about 15 or 20 ft/lbs more so close enough I figured...
All shooting at 15 yards.
First I shot at some rib bones (which are bigger than deer ribs by far)
It cleanly penetrated the rib (2nd rib from left) but so did a .22LR hollowpoint (left rib)
So I put some of the meat and fat scraps in a white plastic bucket, and took a shot. FIrst one was high and didn't really hit anything except the other side of the bucket as it exited.
Second shot got right in the thick of things. I was shocked to see it hadn't even made it to the other side of the bucket.
I carefully peeled away some of the top bits of meat and found the bullet right away.
It hadn't contacted any bone or anything, just some fat and meat.
I thought that maybe using a bucket wasn't giving it a fair shake, surmising that the bullet used up much of it's velocity to break the hard plastic bucket, so I grabbed a grocery sized plastic bag and transferred the meat scraps over. It seemed appropriate for the season
This was also somewhat disappointing. This picture is hard to see, but at the bottom is the bullet hole in the bag, and a bit of ripped flesh. The bullet travelled along and ripped up a bit more flesh, just to the left of that white piece of fat. Bullet penetrated straight for a few inches, thengot stuck in this piece here, and tumbled when it stuck.
Tried out some dry newspaper (no, I am not going to play around with the hose when it's below zero to make wet paper)
Dry paper test was pointless- Barely made it through one thin small town newspaper
I actually thought the penetration would be better on all the media.
It's a fun load to shoot since it's quiet and sometimes you can see the bullet fly, but at this range, an arrow would be far more effective IMHO.
If a person was interested in using a load like this, I'd be doing lots and lots more testing and experimenting before ever pointing it at anything bigger than a pack rat.
I don't have a 45/70 or 400 gr bullets, so couldn't duplicate CC's load of 400gr bullets @ 300fps, so instead I used my 45 COlt trapper with 300gr Hard cast bullets seated backwards, at 400fps. I'm not a fan of using energy to compare loads, but my load has about 15 or 20 ft/lbs more so close enough I figured...
All shooting at 15 yards.
First I shot at some rib bones (which are bigger than deer ribs by far)
It cleanly penetrated the rib (2nd rib from left) but so did a .22LR hollowpoint (left rib)
So I put some of the meat and fat scraps in a white plastic bucket, and took a shot. FIrst one was high and didn't really hit anything except the other side of the bucket as it exited.
Second shot got right in the thick of things. I was shocked to see it hadn't even made it to the other side of the bucket.
I carefully peeled away some of the top bits of meat and found the bullet right away.
It hadn't contacted any bone or anything, just some fat and meat.
I thought that maybe using a bucket wasn't giving it a fair shake, surmising that the bullet used up much of it's velocity to break the hard plastic bucket, so I grabbed a grocery sized plastic bag and transferred the meat scraps over. It seemed appropriate for the season
This was also somewhat disappointing. This picture is hard to see, but at the bottom is the bullet hole in the bag, and a bit of ripped flesh. The bullet travelled along and ripped up a bit more flesh, just to the left of that white piece of fat. Bullet penetrated straight for a few inches, thengot stuck in this piece here, and tumbled when it stuck.
Tried out some dry newspaper (no, I am not going to play around with the hose when it's below zero to make wet paper)
Dry paper test was pointless- Barely made it through one thin small town newspaper
I actually thought the penetration would be better on all the media.
It's a fun load to shoot since it's quiet and sometimes you can see the bullet fly, but at this range, an arrow would be far more effective IMHO.
If a person was interested in using a load like this, I'd be doing lots and lots more testing and experimenting before ever pointing it at anything bigger than a pack rat.
Good work. You can try to argue that the bullet was wider and lighter, and all kinds of other differences, but you can't wiggle out of the fact that you need more energy to be confident that you could kill a deer.
Move up to 600 fps. The thing about energy is that it increases by the square of velocity, so a 600 fps load has 4X the energy of a 300 fps load. It would still be very quiet, but provide far more penetration.
Move up to 600 fps. The thing about energy is that it increases by the square of velocity, so a 600 fps load has 4X the energy of a 300 fps load. It would still be very quiet, but provide far more penetration.
Cold, but not frozen. It was still pliable. When I loaded the bucket,everything was pliable enough to easily pack in. The rib bones were frozen hard.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Good test. Much the sort of results that I would have expected for that sort of velocity.
Pudelpointer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lethbridge, Alberta
Thanks for doing some tests Gatehouse, but I think the results on warm flesh would be drastically different. Try cutting through cold hard fat on a deer compared to when it is body temperature. Soft fat would provide little resistance to a bullet - cold fat is way harder to move a projectile through.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
While that's probably true, there's enough evidence to indicate that CC should bump up the velocity.
I wonder how my 900fps deer load would have done in the same test? It exited the deer, so I never got to find out.
Actually I would say maybe the plan isn't to shoot a deer in the front or hind quarters I just need to pop a bullet thru the hide/ribs and a couple of liquid/membrane filled sacks called lungs don't even need an exit.
FYI Paco Kelly and if you do not know who he is here is his current web site http://w ww.levergunscommunity.com/index.php shot thru a coyote (chest/lungs) @ 50 yards using almost exactly the same velocity that I am shooting.
Yes it is a smaller animal than a deer but it is the correct test medium.
FYI Paco Kelly and if you do not know who he is here is his current web site http://w ww.levergunscommunity.com/index.php shot thru a coyote (chest/lungs) @ 50 yards using almost exactly the same velocity that I am shooting.
Yes it is a smaller animal than a deer but it is the correct test medium.
No test medium is going to be perfect, except what you are actually shooting (in this case a deer)
What I showed is how easily a load like this is slowed down to a halt. None of the cow scraps were densely packed in the bucket or the bag. After hitting a few bits of cow the bullet came to a halt.
A regular 45 colt load would have blasted right through and kept going.
Before I'd personally use a live animal as a test medium, I'd want to do a bit more experimentation, to make sure I could cleanly and ethically kill the particular animal I was after....
I'd think a good test of this would be a piece of scrap leather, a rack of pork ribs and some gelatin behind it to see what the bullet does. Making sure we have a reasonable expectation of a quick death is the least a person should do before attempting "stunts"
Hey Camp,
Been thinking about your little project.
If you bumped bullet weight to 600 grains and velocity to 450fps the bullet energy will be tripled and I think the extra bullet weight will promote better combustion and might be as quiet?
My buddy and I were horsing around in his garage throwing 750 grain FMJ's at his wife's old 6" exercise stepper thing (hard foam). She (buddies wife) was surprised to find holes right through the drywall behind the stepper.
If a thrown 750 grain bullet would easily kill someone, 600 grains at 450fps would do a first rate job!
Indecently a paint pellet (max allowed velocity 300fps) weighs 46 grains only makes 9.19fpe at 300fps....Smarts too!
Frozen paint pellets can break the skin!
Been thinking about your little project.
If you bumped bullet weight to 600 grains and velocity to 450fps the bullet energy will be tripled and I think the extra bullet weight will promote better combustion and might be as quiet?
My buddy and I were horsing around in his garage throwing 750 grain FMJ's at his wife's old 6" exercise stepper thing (hard foam). She (buddies wife) was surprised to find holes right through the drywall behind the stepper.
If a thrown 750 grain bullet would easily kill someone, 600 grains at 450fps would do a first rate job!
Indecently a paint pellet (max allowed velocity 300fps) weighs 46 grains only makes 9.19fpe at 300fps....Smarts too!
Frozen paint pellets can break the skin!
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