.308, 00 buck, or slug for grizzly?!

[Rman]

No, never ever! But if I did, I would take your advice and make sure it was still healthy enough to run away. Or chew me up a little. That's why Alaskan guides use pepper spray and bear poppers as back up. I'd also like to see what kind of bear defence gives you enough time to empty 10 shots out of a bolt action. Not sure why you specify .303, maybe it's from all your experience hunting with Karamojo Bell, but if you look at a ballistics chart, or heck go balls out and chrony some hand loads, you'll find the .308 has a little more steam plus it's a little easier to find Nosler Partitions, Barne's X and other premium high weight retention, deep penetrating bullets for the .308.

Now you are being a twit. A few things. You may not have enough time to decide where you are going to shoot the bear, you may not have time to even get one shot off. Therefore you do not get to decide if the bear runs away wounded or dies. I did NOT say that wounding a bear is a good thing. I DID say the bear leaving instead of eating/chomping on you is.
The thread was not about pepper spray and bangers.
I did NOT say that I could empty a 10 shot mag in a bear defence situation.
I DID not say that I have ever hunted with Karamojo Bill?
I HAVE gone "balls" out and chrony'd several loads from 303 and 308. There is not enough difference between the two for any animal to notice. Do you even own a chrony?
Since you have never even seen a bear in the woods, how can you tell me what you would do? Truth is, you don't have a clue as to what you would do, except try to survive. And at that point in time, all you are going to care about is that the bear goes away, alive or dead. Or you'll end up shooting a bear that didn't need shooting.
Do you know any Alaskan guides? If the answer is no, then how do you know what they carry for bear protection?
I find it odd, that for someone that hasn't even seen a bear, and obviously has never had to react in a bear encounter, would question someone that has? Wise up, and stick with the facts.

R.

 

[723723]

actually i know a guy that outfits/guides in alaska- his bears run a tad bigger- and his gun is a 338 win mag in a bar for "close encounters"- and he runs 275 grainers- i think a 308/12/45-70 would get you laughed right out of that camp

Apples to apples of course bigger is better, what about an RPG.

I'ts no differrent than the 50 bmg crowd laughing the 338 boys off the snipers range.

50 bmg has twice KE of the 338, 338 has twice the KE of 308/12/45-70

I mean really.

The record Alaskan bear was taken with 45-70 400 grain hard cast bullet, bullet passed cleaned thru him when dug out the dirt it (near 100% retention).

 

[CatfishSteve]

Here ya go

http://www.tucsonguns.com/Shotguns.php

Haven't seen that data. Please post link w/ chrony data.

17/18 inches used to be the magic number.

 

[Lazy Ike]

The problem that you should be all to aware of is you live in Southern Alberta. Wind is your enemy here. Chances are if the wind were at your back you'd have no problem. If the wind is coming at your face, anything in front of you wont smell you coming and any spray you get off will come back and get you too.

Very good point!

 

[Camp Cook]

The powders that are used in shotguns are very fast burning so if there is a velocity loss between a 14"/18.5" barrel it is so minimal that I would consider it a non issue.

I'll ask again has anyone ever found Dixie slugs in Canada I haven't and I have tried to find them for years...

In other words why are you comparing a slug that is unobtainable here in Canada?

 

[ipscgraz]

ipscgraz it's not an apples to apples comparison they used standard off shelf loads in their test.

That is exactly right. With the right loads that were not made to prevent liability if somebody fires it in a weak action, the 45-70 would score much higher. I thought everyone would already have a handle on that.

 

[Boomer]

The powders that are used in shotguns are very fast burning so if there is a velocity loss between a 14"/18.5" barrel it is so minimal that I would consider it a non issue.

I'll ask again has anyone ever found Dixie slugs in Canada I haven't and I have tried to find them for years...

In other words why are you comparing a slug that is unobtainable here in Canada?

I looked for a while when I first hear of them 5 or 6 years ago, then I gave up. It seems to me that Remington has a slug load with Dixies, or at least a flat top slug that looks similar. I know Brennekes shoot well out of my guns, and provide good performance, so for the time being thats what I'll stick with.

 

[Camp Cook]

Brennekes are the slug that we use as well...

 

[pharaoh2]

I think your thinking of the Buckhammer.

 

[Boomer]

Yup, thats what I had in mind. I didn't realize the Dixies were designed for a rifled barrrel though . . . another reason to stick with Brennekes.

 

[manbearpig]

Do you use the dlask much?

Shortest I ever had was an 18 inch on rem 870... it was the ultimate for rabbits.. had it threaded for chokes.

my Dlask 12.5" barrel weighs at least as much as a factory 28" barrel... its not the most comfortable thing to carry.
youd be better off with a short Grizzly, Norinco or Remington barrel if you actually plan on hiking with it all day.

 

[pharaoh2]

I do want to get some of those Buckhammers to try in mine. I think Remington adveritised 100 of them through a 3.5 inch group, that's pretty impressive. I also want to try their Accu-tip load. It's a polymer tipped, full caliber bonded bullet.

 

[723723]

Here ya go

http://www.tucsonguns.com/Shotguns.php

Just a statement re: modern burn rates.

No supporting data to validate its effectiveness i.e. chrony data, weight of ammo, when the power hits its max. effectiveness, when it starts to fall off and how fast it falls off relative to length of the barrel

 

[723723]

Yup, thats what I had in mind. I didn't realize the Dixies were designed for a rifled barrrel though . . . another reason to stick with Brennekes.

Dixie has slugs for the smoothbore folks.

 

[723723]

I'll ask again has anyone ever found Dixie slugs in Canada I haven't and I have tried to find them for years...

In other words why are you comparing a slug that is unobtainable here in Canada?

Dixie slugs are not prohibited in Canada.

 

[723723]

That is exactly right. With the right loads that were not made to prevent liability if somebody fires it in a weak action, the 45-70 would score much higher. I thought everyone would already have a handle on that.

Weak action nonsense, taking max. dram shotgun loads designed for shotguns.

In last couple years Remington and Winchester have introduced dangerous game shotgun ammo to their line ups.

The 45-70 and 12g slugger are near ballistic twins KE wise. When both are producing the exact same KE, both use hard cast 400 grain ammo, the sectional density of the ammo is the same the results are going to be very close. Bears not going to know the difference.

Record Alaskan was taken at 125 yards with 45/70 utilizing a 400 grain hard cast bullet, bullet passed clean thru dug out dirt intact.

 

[tactical lever]

The last thing you want to deal with is an angry, still very much alive wounded bear. I'm pretty sure he won't run away or chew you up a little. He's going to turn you into poop!

That's exactly the point I was trying to make!

 

[tactical lever]

Now you are being a twit. A few things. You may not have enough time to decide where you are going to shoot the bear, you may not have time to even get one shot off. Therefore you do not get to decide if the bear runs away wounded or dies. I did NOT say that wounding a bear is a good thing. I DID say the bear leaving instead of eating/chomping on you is.
The thread was not about pepper spray and bangers.
I did NOT say that I could empty a 10 shot mag in a bear defence situation.
I DID not say that I have ever hunted with Karamojo Bill?
I HAVE gone "balls" out and chrony'd several loads from 303 and 308. There is not enough difference between the two for any animal to notice. Do you even own a chrony?
Since you have never even seen a bear in the woods, how can you tell me what you would do? Truth is, you don't have a clue as to what you would do, except try to survive. And at that point in time, all you are going to care about is that the bear goes away, alive or dead. Or you'll end up shooting a bear that didn't need shooting.
Do you know any Alaskan guides? If the answer is no, then how do you know what they carry for bear protection?
I find it odd, that for someone that hasn't even seen a bear, and obviously has never had to react in a bear encounter, would question someone that has? Wise up, and stick with the facts.

R.

I guess you couldn't tell I was being facetious to counter your silly assumptions. If you're going to knock someone else, prepare to have some fun poked at you. I did not say that his hide was less important than the bears, but from the way you put it, it sounded as if stopping the bear was not the first priority. My closest encounter was 8 feet. No killing required.

 

[Gatehouse]

Dixie slugs are not prohibited in Canada.

Not prohibited is irrelevant if nobody goes through the US export process to make them available in Canada.

No supporting data to validate its effectiveness i.e. chrony data, weight of ammo, when the power hits its max. effectiveness, when it starts to fall off and how fast it falls off relative to length of the barrel

What exactly is the velocity difference of slugs through 20", 18", 14" barrel shotguns?

 

[Camp Cook]

Dixie slugs are not prohibited in Canada.

You brought up Dixie slugs using them as an example to compare to the 45-70 but there aren't any here so I still do not understand why you are continuing to comment on them and I never stated that they were prohibited here I stated that no one is stocking or importing them into Canada that I am aware of.

437grs = 1 ounce I load 525gr & 550gr WLNGC's @ 1600fps out of my Marlin 1895GS 45-70 not because that is the fastest I can load them which it isn't, this is the velocity that Garret through all of his studies says is the best I also load 350gr Swift A-Frames @ 2200fps out of my 1895GS making 200 + yard shots easy.

I also don't really care how good the new slugs are getting Brennekes work with authority for me and my son and I will not be shooting a slug gun at distances that are further than 100 yards due to the sights on the shotguns.

Look at my avatar pic those are only some of the 45-70 bullets I load...