.308 Reloading moa what do to next for submoa?

I got my scope today mounted it all up

P2080230.jpg


Looks great... Leupold blinged up there scopes for 2010 thats 24k gold "plated" probally. I am probally going to fire some 150fmj to get it on paper in the indoor range, and make sure the scope is tight and everything is working right before driving an hour away for some long range testing for the weekend and ill try it at 600 yards. And maybe crono a few 168's so I can get a drop chart going.

This past saturday I trusted the weather network it was suposed to be -11 feeling like -19 and winds of 25km/h it was beautiful and not to windy actually and I didnt go out because I thought it was going to be too cold. Last time I trust those guys lol
 
Last edited:
I made it out today for the afternoon I was outside for 3 hours shooting and getting my truck unstuck in the deeper snow.

First two hours wasnt too cold it was sunny and about -2/3... I wanted to do more shooting but my fingers where getting too cold even with gloves on. Looks like its time for some nice thermal shooting gloves "isotoners" lol

The good and bad... I did get a grouping sub 1/2" 5 shots... Without a sand bag :) the bad I dont have a camera anymore to take pictures and left the paper at the farm so I can't scan it so it will have to wait till there till I can go get it again.

The sweet spot seems to be for my setup 39.7 grains its got the most potential... I was getting good hits on my 200 yard gong and went to dial up the scope based on my calcualtions for drop to give the 400 yard a shot and my velocity must be off so this week I am going to cronograph it indoors and redo my chart.

I didnt get to try all my powder combos because my finger got to cold but I am pretty sure 39.7 is the best I can expect

I need to get a wind guage and some flags because it was more windy then normal today. I guessing around 10km/h but its probally more... there was light snow blowing sideways.

Pretty happy... I think I have a set load and now can go play long range once I get a chronographed speed average.
 
Last edited:
Hodgdon indicates a max load of 42.0 IMR 3031 for a 168 Sierra, giving 2710fps and 58,900psi. They do not indicate brass, primer, or barrel length.

Are you using IMR-3031, or are you using a "3031-like" powder?

You are using Winchester brass, which is one of the lightest .308 brass out there, and therefore the largest internal volume (it is also quite well made; it's one of the best choices out there for .308 brass actually). You should most likely be able to safely fire the max load - it's certainly worth trying to work up.

At shorter ranges (actually out to 600 yards anyhow), one can often get pretty good accuracy from fairly mild loads. Oftentimes these accurate mild loads also have pretty terrible velocity consistency, but that doesn't have too bad an effect on the load's grouping from 100-600 yards. If you do fire this inconsistent-mild-accurate ammo at longer ranges (900, 1000 yards), it will give utterly terrible group sizes, because the slower bullets are falling more and and the faster bullets are falling less - so in no-wind conditions at 1000 yards, you might end up with a group that is 36" tall and 16" wide. What is actually happening is that you are getting a 1.5MOA group at 1000 yards (which is good), but the shot-to-shot velocity variations are giving you a lot of vertical.

If you want to be able to shoot accurately beyond 600 yards, it would be worthwhile to get a fast, accurate and uniform load figured out. If not, no need to do this, just go with the first accurate load that you find.

While not necessarily comfortable, blowing snow can be a useful visible wind indicator, especially if it is in the air and you can see it through your spotting scope or rifle scope. Consider it a Finnish sniper training course ;-)
 
I loaded up every 0.3 grains from 39.0 to 42.0 and 39.7 seems to be the best its like a lazer beam... with a little practice it should be able to put 5 shots thru only 3 holes on the paper.

I am using winchester brand new brass its only been loaded now the second time. Winchester primers and IMR-3031 powder

Thats how I was guaging the wind how fast is the snow blowing buy.

I know velocity is important because you want to try and reduced or eliminate when the bullet goes from supersonic to subsonic but 308 isnt really a barrel burner to begin with and the combo that I have selected 168 Custom comps only has a max listed velocity of 2700 thats not very fast...
 
Had a fun day today got everything all setup... chrony all ready to go. Loaded a FMJ to warm up and foul the barrel since I cleaned it last time... and proceeded to put a bullet right down the middle of my chrony distroying every single part in it... you couldn't have tried to distroy it better...not a good way to start out the shooting day... I was used to setting it up for pistol where your gun and target is at the same level. Like a bonehead I tried to aim at a target below the chrony. I am just lucky all that is buggered up is the chrony and my pride...

Here are some pics of my own little private shooting area... as you can see this picture was taken a few seconds before I blew up my chrony. The plywood is 100 yards away to the right of that this is a berm that is 200 yards away. To the left is 300, 400 and the bush at the very back is around 800-900 yards from that location.

Best grouping today was .630" with 39.7 Grains... my concentration and my blown up chrony was in the back of my mind so it kinda wrecked my day lol

I was shooting at 300 yards today at my gong and at 400 yards on paper nothing to report that is worth reporting at 400 yards yet... only that my shots hit the paper :D.

P2200227.jpg

P2200230.jpg
 
Well I gave up my accurate load for velocity... 39.7 was getting to much variation in drop to be effective at longer ranges. Bumped my load up to 42.0 which is the max and did some longer range paper testing at 200 this time. I was able to shoot a 3/4 moa at 200 yards it doesnt look that impressive on paper. With more practice I think I can get that down to 1/2moa at 200 yards... I was able to then dial in and hit my 400 yard gong I am still working on my drop chart because the computer calculations arnt working because I dont have an accurate velocity because I broke my crony.

I got a video clip of 5 for 5 hits banging the gong at 200 yards... and less sucessfully 2 for 5 hits at 400 yards I was holding over for elevation and windage because my chart was off.

I am questioning my choice of 308 for longer range shooting... its nice it can fire heavier bullets but I forgot how slow it is... I am thinking of going to something faster 6mm or 6.5 that can zing 140-150 grain bullets out there faster... 22-250 with 80-90 grain... I was even thinking 300 win mag but I'd rather not burn all that extra powder. They devour the pounds of powder quickly especially when I shoot 50-100 per range trip :)

Here is my 200 yard gong measures 6"x6"x1" mild steel if your behind it your safe from 150 FMJ and 168 HPBT. It moves around quite a bit when it gets hit.
DSC_0053.jpg


3/4 MOA at 200 looks less then impressive.
DSC_0049.jpg


400 yard gong 7"x8"x5/8" 308 168 HPBT hardly do any damage, there are 3 223 50 Vmax hits too.
DSC_0066.jpg


If you dont want to wait for me to get ready to shoot fast forward to 30 seconds
 
Last edited:
I didn't read all 5 pages but looked at your targets and am glad you are now using the 42gr load. That was the best looking test group you had. I am guessing that you have no pressure signs either.

IMR3031 is likely quite temp sensitive so you are way below the max 42gr that is in print -they didn't test in an artic lab :)

Test at 200yds on a calm day, keep moving up in small increments and you will likely see your groups tighten some more, then they will expand alot and you will get pressure signs.

Choose the groups with the LEAST amount of vertical. I bet your accuracy at 400yds will greatly improve.

I hope that you have bedded your rifle?

I major area to look at is your bench. Can you move it, wiggle it or shake it. If yes, then this is a huge source of your error compounded by the movement of the bipod.

You would be better off making and elevated 'bed' that you can lie on. Make it out of 2 layers of 3/4" ply framed on 2X4 with 4X4 legs on 16" centers. Something solid and out of the snow.

I think you will find your consistency improve greatly.

Jerry
 
I split one case neck today... I think I only reloaded them 4 times since brand new... I am bit disapointed that it split... this was brand new winchester brass. I think it was flawed from the factory... I see no signs of pressure and notice about 4 click difference from -10 to +5to7 that it was today.

This ain't really a precision rig Jerry... 700 SPS Tactical 20", its not bedded yet... bench is wiggly lol I must be doing something right like wiggling the bench in the same way every time the rifle has not shot worse then 1.5moa at any distance I have shot it at so far. I am thinking of swaping to a 700 SPS 308 varmint with 26" barrel and loosing the x mark trigger its not light enough at its lowest setting.

My goal is to shoot 800 yards at 8"x8" gong that's 1moa, 10 shots thats all you can ask from this budget rifle... It aint a mile shot with a 223 but its about all that property has to offer as far as distance goes... in the summer I might be able to sneek some 1500 yards shots on another property.... but my skill and equiptment are still a bit off for that longer range.

Anyone have any recomendations for a good portable bench ? If it was my house I could just shoot of the deck but I dont want to annoy my relatives that much with the noise because they are in the house. I am sure the neighbours love me.

Id really like to get one of these but i'd have to sell much more bullets to afford it. I am thinking of sell off both of my high powered rifles and one of the leupolds to get that bad boy... Since I got the 308 my trusty .223 has been a safe queen.
t_459c0578ee.jpg
 
I wouldn't give up on the .308 for long range just yet, they shoot Match Rifle in the UK out to 1200 yards with a .308. What I would give up on is 168 gr bullets. Don't get me wrong, they work at 300 but I don't find them any better that 155's.

Bedding your rifle could reduce your groups by half. And of couse a very steady rest will only improve things, why handicap yourself?

If bedding and a steady rest don't improve your groups, it could be that you are getting the most accuracy that you can out of the factory barrel. Sell off the .223 and put the money towards getting a match barrel fitted to your .308. If long range is your dream get a 30 or 32 inch pipe put on it.
 
I am looking at Varget & 155 Grain Amax or HPBT and the possibility of 2900fps.
As a next step...

I am going to play with the COL a bit too... since the only thing I have tried so far is just touching the groves I am going to bring it back to mag length. Since alot of factory spec ammo seems to work well in remingtons.

Lets talk about bedding... is there anywhere local to get supplies to bed the rifle? What should I be looking for?
I am noticed that when I switched stocks I can't get the right torque specs on my bolts. The rear one hits the bolt and the front locks the bolt down.
What do you torque your bolts to?

The old houge stock has tubes I guess they call that piller bedding... should I get some steel tubes and epoxy them in my stock before doing the other bedding job?
 
Ishodu said:
Looking for a partner I know your not too far from me? I am wanting to shoot longer ranges this year but am quite limited on where I can go.
Click to expand...

Unless you have some private property its pretty limited. Even if there was 1000 yard range near where I live I dont know if I would join I am just used to being able to go check my targets when I want and do what I want... not have to wait for a line to clear and go check targets... lot of ranges dont let you shoot at steel.

I think shooting some type of reactive target in basically a moa at specific ranges helps build your shooting skill. Gives instant feedback immediatly, its either a bullseye or miss :)

If you know somewhere 10-15 min from Kitchener Waterloo area I'd like to go check it out and go shooting with you. Twin city is good but its only I think 300 yards, thats pretty long range for your average shooter but longer is more fun.

Maybe I should pack in the bullet business and make and exclusive long range shooting club in southern ontario.
 
You won't get 2900 fps out of a 20 inch barrel. I am running about 2940-2950 out of a 30 inch tube. 46 grains of Varget with 155 Amax .020 off the lands seems to be the magic numbers.

Any gun shop should have a bedding kit. Accu-glass, Devcon, Bisonite all work. I have also heard marinetex and even JB weld will work but have not tried them myself.

Sounds like you need another set of screw anyway, if you plan to switch back and forth between stocks. All my bedding screws are socket head cap screws and torqued to 65 inch pounds.
 
msg.drew,
You need to look into long range shooting with the ORA. We don't shoot at steel targets but you do get instant feedback on where the bullet hits. We hire target markers that work in the butts at the range. As soon as you shoot the target goes down, they put a spotting disc in the shot hole and put the target back up.
If you are shooting a scoped rifle (F Class) the bull is 1 MOA but the V bull is only 1/2 MOA.
 
maynard said:
msg.drew,
You need to look into long range shooting with the ORA. We don't shoot at steel targets but you do get instant feedback on where the bullet hits. We hire target markers that work in the butts at the range. As soon as you shoot the target goes down, they put a spotting disc in the shot hole and put the target back up.
If you are shooting a scoped rifle (F Class) the bull is 1 MOA but the V bull is only 1/2 MOA.
Click to expand...

I dont have the time nessary to devote to ORA plus arnt all the events held at ranges hours away from KW area... right now long range shooting is just kinda a hobby nothing more then that.

I know how those targets work they are great...
 
Get that action bedded. It will make a huge improvement. the action is definitely not sitting level and likely gets bent when you tighten the bolts. Not good for consistency.

Yes, you are doing very well at learning to shoot off a wiggle platform but you are making life more difficult and can lead to inconsistent results - more shots fired to confirm, reconfirm and that can be very frustrating and expensive.

3031 will work, Varget is popular and works great, Benchmark is another that will work great with the 155's.

I think consistency if really important to LR success. Even if the rifle only groups MOA, dead reliable MOA will get on hitting targets more often then not. Loads that are not tuned properly with stringing just drives you insane the further you go.

Is there anyway, you can build a berm behind your gongs? Or maybe put up a piece of plywood with paper to catch the misses. Really important to know where you are missing.

Good luck...

Jerry
 
I can do just about anything I want too. But the snow is deep so anything I have to take out I have to haul by hand walking 400 yards in knee deap snow is not fun... the curvature of the ground + the deep snow means I cant see a 4x4 foot sheet of plywood at 400 yards... next weekend if I get out I will try and haul my plywood backer out to 600 I can see it better there and the snow makes the miss easy to spot. I might hike it to 700 because that would be the furthest I ever shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom