Canadian Antique Firearm Values (CGN Guide)

[762mm]

Ok guys... a thread came along with questions in regards to the Blue Book values and the actual price we pay up here in Canada for collectible antique firearms. Since no actual price guide exists and CGN is THE place to go for anything firearm-related (up here anyway), I propose we build our own price guide right here and now.

I will start by listing the antiques I have bought/sold recently, as well as their caliber, condition & price paid/sold. If the price includes extra items (antique cartridges, casings, dies, bayonet, etc), please do not forget to mention it.

One last thing.. please keep this thread solely for listing antique prices. If you need to discuss something, please start a new thread. Thanks for your cooperation!

Ok, here we go.. let me be the first to lead the way:


Short guns:

1. Remington No4 Pocket Revolver, cal. 38RF, Good Condition, markings intact, nickel plating at approx 80%, no rust, 5 shot cylinder. $725
Extra items: 80 antique .38RF cartridges and some other small perks for an antiques newbie.

2. S&W First Model DA, cal. 44 Special, Very Good Condition, factory long cylinder model & not modified, very tight gun, nickel plating at approx 85%. $1750

3. Commercial Webley MkI, cal .45acp/.45AutoRim, Excellent Condition, nitro-proof markings on frame, cylinder and barrel, all markings intact, gun appears to be professionally reblued. $1300

4. French 1892 Lebel Revolver, cal 8mm Lebel, Very Good+ Condition, missing lanyard ring + arsenal markings scratched out. $1100.

5. French 1892 Lebel Revolver, cal 8mm Lebel, Good Condition, first year production/low serial number, all original with markings intact. $875.

6. Belgian 1892 Lebel Revolver Copy, cal 8mm Lebel, Poor/unusable condition, poor quality firearm all around, no external markings or serial number, (South-American contract revolver), good frame for an antique project. $300

7. Reichsrevolver M1879, cal .44 Special (chambers likely modified by a gunsmith sometime along its' history), Very Good Condition (all original & not refinished), markings intact & no missing/replaced parts. $1550

8. Belgian Bulldog, cal .320 Revolver, Very Good Condition, 6 shot, folding trigger, German contract pistol w/ German-style safety on the side, all markings intact, no serial number. $550


Long guns:

1. German Mauser M1871 Carbine, cal. .43 Mauser, Very Good Condition, all markings intact + serial numbers matching all around, stock cut down by some clueless Bubba sometime along the way. $365
Extra items: Approx. 100 cast bullets, 36 .43 Mauser brass and Lee .43 Mauser dies.

2. Martini-Henry MkIV long-lever, cal .577-450 M-H, Enfield manufacture, Very Good antique condition, brown patina all around, markings intact + serial numbers matching all around, rifle required some TLC to bring it up to a 100% shooting condition (striker spring replacement, disassembly & throughout PITA cleaning of dried out yak grease). $765
Extra items: Correct Pattern 1887 Officer's sword bayonet (in VG+ antique condition), two boxes of MagTech 24Ga shotgun brass for resizing.


*Note: This will be a work in progress gentlemen... so please always feel free to edit your post in this thread in order to add more info as you buy/sell your antiques. That way we'll always have a current source of information at our collective disposal.

 

[41 Colt]

I buy most of mine in the USA, this is what I sold them for on CGN IIRC.

ETA, I adjusted my conditions using the NRA standards:

NRA ANTIQUE FIREARM CONDITIONS STANDARDS:

FACTORY NEW: All original parts; 100% original finish; in perfect condition in every respect, inside and out.

EXCELLENT: All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore.

FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.

VERY GOOD: All original parts; none to 30% original finish; original metal surfaces smooth with all edges sharp; clear lettering, numerals and design on metal; wood slightly scratched or bruised; bore disregarded for collectors firearms.

GOOD: Some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or re-blued; principal letters, numerals and design on metal legible; wood refinished, scratched bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.

FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.

POOR: Major and minor parts replaced; major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed; metal deeply pitted; principal lettering, numerals and design obliterated, wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked or broken; mechanically inoperative; generally undesirable as a collector's firearm.
______________________________________

Colt Model 1873 SAA, .41 Colt: Fair Condition, pitted cylinder and bore, replaced trigger & hammer, timing off. $2000

Colt Model 1877 Thunderer, .41 Colt: Good Condition, mechanically very good/tight, replaced grips, turned out to be an old refin. $1300

Colt Model 1877 Thunderer, .41 Colt: Very Good Condition, rough nickle plating, mechanically okay. $1350

Colt Model 1889 New Army Navy, .41 Colt: Good Condition, bluing worn, mechanically good, barrel appeared to be replaced as well as the grips. $1100

 

[sunray]

"...the Blue Book values..." Average U.S. values from all over the States with no regard for local supply and demand. Blue Book values mean nothing in Canada.
"...Good Condition..." According to what standards? NRA? You have a good idea, but you need to state what condition standards you're using. "Okay", for example, isn't a recognized standard for anything. No offense intended to 41 Colt.
The worst of it is that the dealers won't agree. Retail values and private sale values are not the same as 'wholesale' values.

 

[dingus]

I know a guy that goes to the gun shows all the time with some big thick book under his arm, i think its a blue book of values and he gets so worked up and upset when someone wants to sell a gun for higher than in that blue book.
rifles can be close to some blue book values but handguns well theres just not enough water in our pool yet to make our pool level with the USA pool not now not ever is my guess.

 

[762mm]

41 Colt: Thanks for your input and for stating the various condition standards. I totally forgot to do that.

That said, I hope we won't be the only two members contributing to this guide... or it risks being awfully short.

 

[starpuss]

i am going to start keeping the sold gun on my site and i am going to mark down what i sold them for.

(also the ones i sell on the EE i list on there on the sold list.)

 

[david doyle]

yeah posting prices for a few examples wont do much to solidify values. Especially in this age of internet sales, condition rating and seller realiability are just far too variable to make anything consistent. (see fairfax sticky). I for one will pay top dollar to a couple trusted sellers but to people unknown to me I need to see a bargain price and lots of pics to risk dealing with them.

Plus the market changes monthly depending on who is shopping. Back when a certain friend and gunnut was the only competition on Gun broker webleys came cheap. Now a couple years later a dozen or so canucks shopping at any one time has tripled (or more) selling prices (but there are still lots of cheap ones if you use the yellow pages so what is the real value? ).

Interesting exercise but I would'nt see it as having much value either to a buyer or a seller. Sellers offer guns for what they want to get and buyers decide how much they want any given arm.

 

[rboomsma]

removed

 

[david doyle]

Condition Fine, gun is very tight, nickle plating is about 75%.
Came with Nice Leather Holster.

So is the bore lightly pitted? Cause that description allows for pitting in the bore and cylinders................

The tight part is not required as it is covered in the Fine description. About 75% is the diffrence between excellent and fine. Add the mysetery surrounding the condition of the bore and you have described a gun which may be FINE or may be EXCELLENT.
The listed price means nothing other then someone paid 1850 for an example of a Mdle #3. It may be in some peoples opinion a 900 dollar gun or I may jump all over it with 2500.

Just want to temper this list with the reality of the useability. Post 10 pics with each price and you might have a useful list but in abscence of pics or real old school NRA Antique descriptions the prices mean nothing.

 

[rboomsma]

I don't see anything in this description about pitted bore or how tight the gun is:

FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.

I don't feel the gun is excellent due to the nickle finish. Never seen a S&W model 3 da sell for $900 unless it is a project gun, unless it is in the USA.

So is the bore lightly pitted? Cause that description allows for pitting in the bore and cylinders................

The tight part is not required as it is covered in the Fine description. About 75% is the diffrence between excellent and fine. Add the mysetery surrounding the condition of the bore and you have described a gun which may be FINE or may be EXCELLENT.
The listed price means nothing other then someone paid 1850 for an example of a Mdle #3. It may be in some peoples opinion a 900 dollar gun or I may jump all over it with 2500.

Just want to temper this list with the reality of the useability. Post 10 pics with each price and you might have a useful list but in abscence of pics or real old school NRA Antique descriptions the prices mean nothing.

 

[762mm]

Damn... this is exactly what I feared with this thread... that it would turn into a debate instead of a price list.

It doesn't matter if there are slight discrepancies in the pricing/conditions, guys! The point of this thread is to give SOME basic idea about Canadian antique pricing. These guns are 110+ years old, so OF COURSE it will be almost impossible to find two guns that are exactly alike. That's just common sense, so there's really no need to bring this up.

The thread is basically here to help newbies... so that they don't pay $2500 for a Webley that would usually sell for $1400 or less. It will help standardize things at least a little bit, that's all. We all appreciate your comments, but this was intended as a price guide/list for those who wish to contribute to it.

 

[david doyle]

good bore

That is my point GOOD BORE according to NRA antique condition means PITTING. So is it a pit free gleaming bore or does it look like a sewer pipe??? The diffrence between a 2500 dollar gun and a 500 dollar is very few words.

The thread is basically here to help newbies... so that they don't pay $2500 for a Webley that would usually sell for $1400 or less

I am not debating I am doing exactly what you wanted I am helping newbs avoid the pitfalls of spending thier money on guns that are mis described. I am also helping to keep the prices based on 'real' value as opposed to what someone on CGN spent while drunk on friday night with a tax return burning a hole in thier pocket.

IMHO the trend on here is to spend WAY too much for junk and to resist spending on Quality. I blame that on the exact thing I am trying to point out CONDITION is everything and with out photos and detailed descriptions the prices are abstracts.

I think you have a great idea here but recgoninze that some constructive criticism of descriptions is what newbs really need, not arbitrary figures and love poems written by owners still enthralled with thier latest purchase!

I have been lucky a few times in having a more experienced friend save me from a purchase by pointing out something I ignored in the description or something I missed in the pics. One minute I am on the verge of dropping a wad (on a 'properly priced gun) and the next I am relieved as hell I did'nt get rooked. Newbs don't need abstract figures they need the ability to judge a gun and compare it to other guns.

 

[762mm]

^ You're right in that respect, of course... and I'm not pointing the finger at you specifically (I bought a very beautiful Mauser M71 from you for very cheap, so I know you're very honest with your pricing, lol!), rather I was just trying to keep this thread on course by having guys put a brief description of their gun and the price they paid.

I do admit however that bore condition should've been an important point to stipulate, which I forgot (but pretty much all my antique guns have good bores with minimal pitting if any at all, so it kind of escaped my mind for that reason).

If anyone has a template or a different idea of how we could do this, please do not be shy to post it. This is simply version 1.0 of something that could be huge and very well made... if we work together on it, of course.



P.S. I have also considered the 'tin hat' bunch that's most likely afraid to post their past or current hardware, because "there might be an RCMP official checking IP addresses (without a warrant ) and making a 'registry' of who has what antique". Please remember that we still have the freedom of freely owning/trading these things. Just something to think about for those who are afraid of the black helios patrolling the sky with a huge antique-detecting antenna sticking out... lol!

 

[BadLieutenant]

Damn... this is exactly what I feared with this thread... that it would turn into a debate instead of a price list.

Ah, the wonderful world of boards......you always get what you didn't want in the first place!

The only way to have a thread like you wanted, would be to have one that is locked and people send you their info through PMs and you make updates....

 

[762mm]

Ah, the wonderful world of boards......you always get what you didn't want in the first place!

The only way to have a thread like you wanted, would be to have one that is locked and people send you their info through PMs and you make updates....

Excellent idea... Thanks!

Moderators, what do you think? Is that a possibility on CGN?

 

[nessy357]

I'll talk to Steppenwolf, see what we can come up with.
Cheers nessy

 

[DEZ]

The value of a antique firearm is what the seller is willing to sell it for and what the buyer is willing to pay on any given day

 

[dingus]

The value of a antique firearm is what the seller is willing to sell it for and what the buyer is willing to pay on any given day

I Agree and its not a good idea to post speculation of Prices on antiques.
Thats all we need is Revenue Canada seeing that.
Good intentions aside its not a good idea.

I do leave up my sold prices when i can but the Buyers ask to have the price deleted most of the time eh.
As someone Mentioned its a private thing between the seller and buyers.
So im sorry but i do what the Buyers want.
I do leave up sold prices if they dont request them to be removed tho.

 

[762mm]

The value of a antique firearm is what the seller is willing to sell it for and what the buyer is willing to pay on any given day

I'm sorry to contradict you, but that's not true. When I first started looking into antiques, I thought that $2500 Webley MkII's with pitting and 'fair bores' were a steal, considering their legal and historical status. But eventually, with enough time spent surfing the EE section, I have bought a beautiful commercial MkI for $1300 from a very nice gentleman who was asking a fair price (who shall remain nameless in case Rev Can is here collecting taxes, lol). I didn't even negotiate it down 1 cent, as I knew the price to be already fair for both of us.

Now, had that gun cost $2300, I most certainly would've passed... knowing damn well that a better deal would come by within weeks (but this may not be the case for a newbie, who might get easily suckered into overpaying by +- a grand). So, in a way, a price list is indeed practical, as it standardizes pricing as a whole for everyone. And with CGN being the most active online firearms exchange spot in Canada, it makes perfect sense to build something like this right here.

As far as revenue Canada is concerned... I don't think they give a rat's a** about how much you or me pay or sell our antiques for. Did you ever even try to call them to report something suspicious? They will just tell you to mind your own business, lol! (I know that from someone who has connections in that particular agency).


Anyway, how about this:

All members who wish to contribute to the list and help standardize pricing a little bit by giving a general idea of what's what, please send me a PM with a description of the antiques and the price they were bought or sold for (I don't even need to know if you bought/sold it yourself or if a 'friend' bought/sold it, as long as the prices seem justified & credible). I will then update post #1 with the info received.

User names of members who send such a PM will not be posted to preserve anonymity.

 

[david doyle]

Lets test it anyone who can offer or find me a "beauty" 455 mkI for 1300 dollars gets 1300 dollars and 762 gets 25 free 455 cases and a case of beer.