300 Fireball AR15 (Brass forming - post #150)

Months after building the first Fireball, I finally got a chance to chrono some loads and it nearly didn't even happen. I hadn't had a chance to sight in my rifle and the first round came within an inch of clipping the chronograph. :slap:

The following is out of a 10.5" barrel.

Supersonic

110gr bulllet, H4227 - 2048 fps
125gr bullet, H4227 - 1998 fps
150gr bullet, H4227 - 1693 fps

One thing I noticed about these loads is the velocity spread is generally quite low. For example the 125gr load had a standard deviation of only 6 fps. I suspect this is due to the small case being quite full of powder.

Subsonic

- all with 200gr uncoated bullet.

H4227 - 846 fps (obviously this is slower than optimal but the rifle cycles fine with this load - needs a bit more work)
H322 - 997 fps (fricken PERFECT - I am going to drop 0.1 gr and go with this load)
Lil Gun - 1028 fps (slightly strange results as I got higher velocity with less powder)
HS6 - ~1100 fps (this load is too hot and still doesn't lock the action back on an empty mag.)
W296 - 983 fps (fricken PERFECT #2 - slightly more velocity spread than H322 but still a good load)

Notes:

H4227 and H322 both work well with subsonics but they tend to produce a bit more muzzle noise than the faster powders. However they are reliable performers and fill the case enough to be safe. They can also both be used for supersonic loads meaning one powder can be used for every kind of ammo.

Lil Gun: I only had a small amount of this stuff and won't be buying any more. I think it could work well but I have enough powders on my bench at the moment.

HS6: This stuff is better left for bolt guns and manual actions. It is not reliable in a semi-auto. I wanted it to work because it is likely to be quieter than the slower powders and I have a can of it I'd like to use up but I also don't want to blow myself up or wreck my rifle and short stroking is just a drag.

W296 may be the best choice for subsonics. It should be reasonably quiet yet produces easy and safe subsonic cycling in an AR rifle. A load 0.3 gr less than the one that produced 983 fps still cycled and locked back the rifle reliably and I suspect it could go even lower reliably.
 
any idea how a 18.5 inch barrel would perform....

I have done 7.62x39 and .308 Win subsonics in longer barrels and they work fine but require lubed bullets and careful load development to get them to work safely and reliably. The problem is that the longer barrel creates more friction slowing the bullet down so they can get stuck in the barrel. The other side of the coin being that when you increase the powder charge to get the bullet out of the barrel reliably, the velocities usually end up being transonic and noisy. It is a bit of a balancing act to get right.

When I removed the muzzle device the entire problem went away.

So it appears back to the drawing board.

I was able to confirm my original diagnoses. With the SPEX installed I fired about 30 rounds trouble free. I swapped out the other muzzle device and the rifle jammed on the second round, with it being an incomplete feed into the chamber due to dirt. I now I am gonna have to tear that thing apart and completely redesign it and then rebuild it. :(
 
Anyone try bulk reloading of subsonics?

I did 100 last night and they seemed to work out fairly well. I make sure to weigh every fifth powder charge out of the measure just to make sure it is still within spec. It is kinda strange metering out such a small amount of powder but I don't want to hand weigh hundreds of charges lest I go blind in the process.
 
Anyone try bulk reloading of subsonics?...
... It is kinda strange metering out such a small amount of powder but I don't want to hand weigh hundreds of charges lest I go blind in the process.
I bulk-load .38 special, using 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I've never clocked them; but I'd bet they're subsonic.
 
W296 may be the best choice for subsonics. It should be reasonably quiet yet produces easy and safe subsonic cycling in an AR rifle. A load 0.3 gr less than the one that produced 983 fps still cycled and locked back the rifle reliably and I suspect it could go even lower reliably.

Yup. This is what I found too - W296 is what I use for all my subsonics now. Great stuff, with 180gn bullets too. 147's are too light for my rig, but 180's are right in the wheelhouse.

I'll probably bulk load some subs once I get a little bit of free time - that's about the last thing I have on my hands right now...

-M
 
I am using a full sized powder measure meant to throw large charges of powder.
Why don't you use a measure meant to throw tiny charges? They are fast, simple and quite accurate.
It's true that the powder reservoir is pretty small; but a 1/2 pound of powder is still something like 2000 rounds. (taking into account spillage)
 
Lee Auto-Disk.

Problem solved, for less than several hundred dollars.

You can send me my massage with happy ending in the mail. :)

-M
P.S. Small charges in a larger volume-dispensed system are just as reliable as large charges, provided you set the metering up properly. Which I'm sure you will.
 
I have a Lee autodisk but it bells the case mouth which I don't want. I only ever use it for handgun stuff so I don't remember if it requires a special cartridge specific die or is it kind of universal?

Finished off a couple hundred 208gr subsonics last night. Kinda had a laugh when I noticed that the bullet is longer than the case. Bet not many cartridges can claim that.

300WhisperRound.JPG


That bullet is really big when you hold it in your hand. Even a subsonic velocity it must pack a hell of a punch at the other end. And when you consider how little noise it produces, it is even more impressive to shoot. I am loving my 10" 300 Whisper AR15. :ar15:
 
Actually the Lee Auto-Disk doesn't have to flare the case mouth. You can adjust it for full actuation, without belling... you'll need a 30-cal bushing (but to put it plainly, mine was missing its bushing/expander for .45ACP when I got it originally - thanks Canada Customs! - and it took me about 5 minutes to make one on my lathe).

Actually, by custom making your own, you won't even have to put a shoulder on it for expansion purposes... you can make it a self-centering funnel like Dillon does for rifle cartridges. Problem solved! :)

-M
 
Doc, I have to say ..... you are a LOT smarter than you look. :)

I will try the AutoDisk next time after I make myself a custom bushing for it.

The full size powder measure did seem to work fairly well and I now have 200 subsonics ready to go. :)

Smart no... resourceful yes. :)

Btw, the custom .45 bushing I made for my Auto-Disk still resides in the measure, since I liked it better than the replacement bushing Lee sent me... You've got an advantage since you just need to measure the OAL and OD of your existing bushing, then make a nice setup with the same OAL or slightly greater - say 0.250" longer than nominal, so you can put gentle self-centering tapers on both top and bottom?

For an expander bushing, you need to polish or at least smooth the shoulder which flares the case mouth... for a centering funnel/taper, you don't even have to do that... Should take you literally 10 minutes.

-M
 
We had some new parts come into the shop the other day so I thought I'd put together another Fireball upper. This one is nearly orgasmic it is so cool. I want to take it home myself but don't know what I'd do with two Fireball uppers.

300FireballCF.JPG


Specs:

14.5" 1:8 bull barrel w 11 deg target crown.
.936" JP adjust gas block @ pistol length
PRI carbon forend
YHM low profile flip-up sights
 
That carbon forend is jizz-worthy.

I LOVE carbon fiber... a side-effect of my obsession with Formula 1, I suppose.

My .300 FB hasn't been getting much use lately... way WAY too busy with work to go shooting as much as I'd like.

-M
 
Did you guys sort out Yardie's feeding issues? I read on Quarterbore about guys having that same issue and the problem was case OAL.

Free time is as always, ever elusive.

I have a whack of once fired brass, hopefully I can get it trimmed up during next days off...

...but after looking at my schedule, doesn't appear that way.

:(

We'll get it figured...!!
 
Yeah, I thought it might have been OAL too - but my brass was actually well under-max and his still didn't like my rounds most of the time. Whereas they fed just fine in my rig... odd.

Like he says, we'll get 'er figured sooner or later! :)

-M
 
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