Are you disillusionised when shopping for a black rifle?

daedra83 said:
Soon the black rifles will be owned only by a small minority of gun owners.
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"Soon" ?

I did share with you all that e-mail I got from the CFC that said there were only 4,000 or so AR-15s registered in Canada. I have no doubt they missed off some copies but even if there are 8,000, pretty small potatoes. Probably less than 20,000 military-style semi-autos registered in Canada to individuals.

Really the magazine restrictions make them glorified toys, imo. I know us hardcore gun owners like to tinker with our guns but if you take an automatic rifle and make it semi-auto (or manually operated) only and limit the mag capacity to five rounds, the justification for buying one over an ordinary bolt-action rifle for hunting or target shooting is pretty limited.

Only gun nuts with spare cash lying around will buy them under those circumstances.
 
cybershooters said:
"Soon" ?

I did share with you all that e-mail I got from the CFC that said there were only 4,000 or so AR-15s registered in Canada. I have no doubt they missed off some copies but even if there are 8,000, pretty small potatoes. Probably less than 20,000 military-style semi-autos registered in Canada to individuals.

Really the magazine restrictions make them glorified toys, imo. I know us hardcore gun owners like to tinker with our guns but if you take an automatic rifle and make it semi-auto (or manually operated) only and limit the mag capacity to five rounds, the justification for buying one over an ordinary bolt-action rifle for hunting or target shooting is pretty limited.

Only gun nuts with spare cash lying around will buy them under those circumstances.
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Great point. As someone relatively new to the sport,this is exactly why I am debating if it is worth the cash and inconvenience.
 
And while I sit and consider my non-restricted options (xcr/min-14/MR1) I feel like I am either compromising accuracy,ergonomic,etc or/and getting shafted by the price.
 
That really depends what your personal requirements are.
Today's bolt action market offers almost nothing to an iron sight shooter like me. If I want to use aperture sights I need a black rifle, especially in an affordable caliber. I only shoot from field positions, 100 to 400m on average. With a semi shooting kneeling and sitting lets me stay in exact position. I like the ergonomics of a pistol grip, and doing double taps is just way too much fun:D Modern semi's have their advantages. Magazine capacity is not a factor for accurate shooting. I see no training value in hosing down the countryside. Only hits count, so I'll live with 5 round mags until the day we are able to better our laws. Mags change out real quick with practice.
 
I am going to go out on a limb and disagree with most of the people here.

I think that a novel Canadian made black rifle is possible.

The only way to do it is via massive parts commonality with an existing design. Preferably, the AR. Ideally, the only things you would want to change would be the upper/lower, and the gas system/bolt carrier.

Re-use the barrel, FCG, stock, etc. This leaves us with the lower, which would be equivalent in complexity to the AR lower, which ATRS already makes in country. The upper should not be too much more difficult to make. Use the AR bolt, but with a new carrier and gas system.

ATRS does the lowers for ~500, so I bet you could get the upper and lower combination done for 800-900 (figure the difference in bar stock size, no EDM mag-well breaching on the upper, etc.)

Slap a set of AR parts on it, and you might scrape in under $2000. But not by a lot.

And in the end, you just end up with a gun that the CFC/RCMP labels a variant anyway.

... What? I never said it was a good idea.
 
cybershooters said:
Really the magazine restrictions make them glorified toys, imo.
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Not at all. If anything, it makes us better marksmen/riflemen. Gone are the days of a 20/30/75rnd mag dump. Replaced is precision rapid positional fire with rapid mag changes.

I do aggree that there are far too few black rifles in far too few hands though. They are a great mechanism to refine ones field skills before a hunt, to assist with National Defense, and to simply enjoy.
 
can14 said:
we could buy a G3 or Ak47 factory from overseas for set up in Western Canada.Then the Federal Government would have to support it because of western diversification/and transfer payments to the provinces. Then, you apply for a licence to produce Ar15/m16's and any replacement rifle that Canada plans to produce in the future. Because of all of the threats to Pax America, we need to have more than one factory producting defense weapons for Canadian Forces.
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yes, but almost none of the equipment would work for ar parts, and nothing it would be ideal for is allowable in canada (unfortunatly). And you'll never get a second arms company supplying the canadian goverment, they contract with colt canada......if they build a second factory it will be a colt operation as well with the same BS restrictions.
 
The Canadian Market Size issue doesn't hold water! We are as big as California according to the NRA, the biggest market in America. A lot of firearms companies want the US Gvt to cut back on the export restrictions to Canada.
Look at what Cabelas sell guns for and what they sell them for in the US. Not a lot of difference. Target in Bellingham sells AR15 M4 carbines for $599.00....Dealers sell them for $1200.00/$1500.00 in Canada.....
 
Huh, I was thinking about this yesterday.

I'd love to see someone build an AR-ish, bolt-action, straight-pull rifle.

Build it without the hole required for a buffer assembly (no need for that!), use AR mags with an undersized mag catch hole and corresponding-sized mag catch so that the mags will not work in AR's (so you can have a 30-round mag), and oversize the takedown and pivot pins so you can't stick an AR upper onto it and voila... you'd have one pretty sweet little varmint hunting rifle for pinking and small game.

Of course, it'd be even sweeter if you could have lower drilled and threaded for a buffer and buy specially made pins so that you COULD strap an AR upper onto a non-restricted lower with a 30-round mag.

For this hypothetical rifle... I think there would be a market.
 
The Canadian Market Size issue doesn't hold water!
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Really?

So because we have 1/10 the population we somehow have the same number of shooters? (10x the shooters as the US)

We are as big as California according to the NRA, the biggest market in America.
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Actually the government is.
 
dfritter1 said:
Huh, I was thinking about this yesterday.

I'd love to see someone build an AR-ish, bolt-action, straight-pull rifle.

Build it without the hole required for a buffer assembly (no need for that!), use AR mags with an undersized mag catch hole and corresponding-sized mag catch so that the mags will not work in AR's (so you can have a 30-round mag), and oversize the takedown and pivot pins so you can't stick an AR upper onto it and voila... you'd have one pretty sweet little varmint hunting rifle for pinking and small game.

Of course, it'd be even sweeter if you could have lower drilled and threaded for a buffer and buy specially made pins so that you COULD strap an AR upper onto a non-restricted lower with a 30-round mag.

For this hypothetical rifle... I think there would be a market.
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If the RCMP classify a blow-back .22LR that has nothing in common with an AR, other than it's appearance , as an AR "variant", what do you think they'll do with your hypothetical rifle?
 
Yeah, if I were to build said hypothetical rifle I'd personally call it something really ###, like the "Liberalizer 4000," or perhaps simply the "Pew Pew Pew."

Also, on the note of making it look different from most AR's; just make it a full-length wood stock (right to the end of the barrel, I've always liked the look of those) into which the lower is inserted (think of a scaled-up version of a Remington 597 or Ruger 10/22). That way it hides all the dastardly, evil, baby-killing guts. That would also allow you to ditch the evil pistol grip in favour of something really boring, like a Prince of Wales grip or summat.
 
Armedsask said:
You live in a world of delusion.

The most common complaint on this site is the cost of rifles, especially the black ones. Let's take the Swiss Arms and Tavor for example. These are $3000 rifles. These are rifles made by huge companies.

Now imagine a company trying to make a rifle for the tiny Canadian market. They would most likely be a small company, with luck they already have the facilities to produce a firearm. Even with that, we would be extremely lucky if that rifle cost $3000. I would think it would cost closer to $5000.
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Exactly.
 
When we see companies like Blueline, Questar, and Dlask with reasonably priced Canadian made AR parts sitting on the self for months on end being ignored, while people are asking for the latest valued priced AR parts to be brought up from the US, just goes to show you that we will not be able to support a Canadian black rifle.

Unless this rifle can shoot sub MOA in the hands of blind person, has more accessories than Barbie, be feature on the cover of every magazine in the world and still comes under a price tag of $1000......:runaway:
 
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