I guess the other way to look at it is I have a Provincial Championship, several Level III and Sectional wins to my name, a few top 5 finishes at the Nationals, shelves full of trophies and boxes full of medals from shooting IPSC, PPC, and from the Bianchi Cup....what have you got? Besides a keyboard?
Glock 17 - groups
- Thread starter bluemike807
- Start date
Ah Grasshoper but you don't have the light of wisdom yet, sit back and learn from the master....
Take Care
Bob
ps Ever have a gun where the sights were off and adjusted them off the bench or installed new sights on a gun. If you were as proficient and skillful as TDC all you have to do is set up a target at 25 yards and make your adjustments freestyle.
Ah Grasshoper but you don't have the light of wisdom yet, sit back and learn from the master....
Take Care
Bob
ps Ever have a gun where the sights were off
Lol..I had a S&W model 36 that had to use several inches (feet?) of Kentucky windage to hit a 12" plate at 50m...does that count?
Yes that gun might just be a candidate. Now if you had the skill sets of the master you woudn't bother until it started to affect you out to say 100 yards when shooting zombies.
Take Care
Bob
LOL Too fracking Funny Bob.
If I recall correctly, this was shot at 20 yards from a bench.
Lucky? Maybe. Does it represent accuracy of the pistol at 20 yards? Maybe not - maybe after shooting another 5 rounds that group spreads another inch or two, but maybe if it is put in a machine rest it might do 2.5" groups at 25 yards. I don't know, I haven't analyzed it enough to know for sure.
Knowing the mechanical accuracy is important insofar as giving the shooter valuable data on the best case scenario with that combo of firearm and that ammo, be it a pistol or a rifle.
Comparing that with a rested group shot by hand gives immediate info back to the shooter how their trigger control is. Comparing the info gained from shooting off a machine rest and off a hand-driven rested position with those shot offhand will give more info still...
Lucky? Maybe. Does it represent accuracy of the pistol at 20 yards? Maybe not - maybe after shooting another 5 rounds that group spreads another inch or two, but maybe if it is put in a machine rest it might do 2.5" groups at 25 yards. I don't know, I haven't analyzed it enough to know for sure.
Knowing the mechanical accuracy is important insofar as giving the shooter valuable data on the best case scenario with that combo of firearm and that ammo, be it a pistol or a rifle.
Comparing that with a rested group shot by hand gives immediate info back to the shooter how their trigger control is. Comparing the info gained from shooting off a machine rest and off a hand-driven rested position with those shot offhand will give more info still...
Nice group there Mike. You likely are at the edge of mechanical accuracy for that pistol at that range. Certainly well within any reasonable expectation for a combat pistol. Now we if we could do that consistantly on the move freestyle...wouldn't life be grand.
Take Care
Bob
Take Care
Bob
If you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one questioning the validity of benching the pistol, Pepsicola and I'm sure others who've posted (and those who have not) are curious as to why you would suggest such a drill. I offered evidence against the practice and you have yet to discredit my points or offer your own.
A box full of trophies doesn't really account for much. At best, your skill level is high and you therefore don't need to focus on drills that work the fundamentals. Just because you're a champion doesn't mean you're a good instructor.
TDC
A ransom rest is the only way to truly measure the inherent/mechanical accuracy of a pistol. I'm willing to bet that all quality made pistols will shoot similar groups to the one you posted, with factory ammo and unaltered sights. Regardless, the group you posted was shot with nearly zero human error factor, which clearly flies in the face of those who believe Glocks(or any other service pistol) and fixed sights are "inaccurate". You proved its the shooter not the gun that makes the shot(when not supported that is
)TDC
Now if he won that box full of trophies from a benchrested position then it might give some credibility.....
frankly my concern with shooting a "combat" pistol from a benchrest position is that the muscles used are very different from shooting it "freestyle"..... frankly yes it might instill confidence in the shooter and the gun that they can hit a target from the bench, but how does that transpose into freestyle shooting when a whole other group of muscles is involved.
RememberTheSomme
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nice group. looks like 1" ,with a flyer. Not a ransom.If I recall correctly, this was shot at 20 yards from a bench.
Lucky? Maybe. Does it represent accuracy of the pistol at 20 yards? Maybe not - maybe after shooting another 5 rounds that group spreads another inch or two, but maybe if it is put in a machine rest it might do 2.5" groups at 25 yards. I don't know, I haven't analyzed it enough to know for sure.
Knowing the mechanical accuracy is important insofar as giving the shooter valuable data on the best case scenario with that combo of firearm and that ammo, be it a pistol or a rifle.
Comparing that with a rested group shot by hand gives immediate info back to the shooter how their trigger control is. Comparing the info gained from shooting off a machine rest and off a hand-driven rested position with those shot offhand will give more info still...
If you read through again you will notice I said it is only part of the drills I use to train. Benching the gun is to train your finger and your vision. Use it to train the link between what you see and pulling the trigger. It is not meant to build your stance, hopefully you are doing drills that will work on this too.
If you think that skill level puts you beyond working on fundamentals, I KNOW you don't know what you are doing. I spend at least as much time working the fundamentals as I do on more advanced stuff.
And as I've said before, if you think you know everything, by all means ignore my advice. But for someone who doesn't let their ego control their learning. Give it a try and see.
If you think that skill level puts you beyond working on fundamentals, I KNOW you don't know what you are doing. I spend at least as much time working the fundamentals as I do on more advanced stuff.
And as I've said before, if you think you know everything, by all means ignore my advice. But for someone who doesn't let their ego control their learning. Give it a try and see.
He's got a bunch of posts on the internet. Oh, and a course or two.
That must count for something.... right?
lol
Observe, learn and practice (with purpose) until your basic knowledge becomes advanced skill. You owe it to yourself to learn and try all techniques that will help you improve. But, most importantly, train as you fight, fight as you train (you can always substitute the word "fight" in the sentence above for the word "compete" if that's your thing).
Right....
Why would you train yourself to "see the sights during the trigger press" from a position(a supported position) that you will never use when firing off hand? Visualizing the sight alignment requires no contact with the trigger, its not rocket science. Practicing sight alignment should be done from the holster if that is your intended start position. Practice the draw, aligning the sights and acquiring a sight picture within your line of sight are all connected. You cannot effectively practice any one of the three without the others.
Is this a d*ck measuring contest? Does someone have to have MIL/LE experience or trophies to have a firm grasp on the fundamentals? My guess is yes. I'll entertain your proposition. I compete in local three gun matches and have placed in every match and in every division/class I shoot. If you've seen my other posts you know I train and have attended a half dozen shooting courses. All of which focus on defensive(or offensive) use of a firearm.
Trigger control is about consistent movement of the trigger with little to no disturbance of the sight alignment and sight picture. Trigger control has nothing to do with acquiring your sight alignment or sight picture. Proper trigger control can be achieved with poor sight alignment/sight picture. Your eye and your sights(and your muzzle, as your sights are directing your muzzle) do not have to be in agreement for proper trigger control to take place. They(eye and sights and trigger control) do have to be in agreement to make hits on your intended target.
And what do you have? Some time behind the badge issuing speeding tickets and investigating break ins? I'm sure you use your gun everyday right?
TDC
One of the things I like most about the internet is how some people know who various others are in person and some people don't, and so things like this come up. It's funny for those in the know.
It's like when you have a friend who's a doctor, and you're at a party where somebody is mouthing off about how modern medicine sucks. Your friend makes some crack, and the guy says, "what are you, a ####ing oncologist?"
You friend could say, "Why yes, I'm the head of oncology at Vancouver General, actually." But he could also say nothing, and everybody who knows what he does for a living will just have a good laugh about it later.
And since the goal is to hit targets you MUST train to coordinate the trigger press with the sight picture. If you train to pull the trigger with the sights out of alignment you are guaranteeing misses, since that is what you trained to do.
Whether you are supported or not the quality of the trigger press is the same.
Feel free to continue with the way you do things, nobody is forcing you to try this. The OP asked how to learn to shoot better and I made a suggestion, if this threatens what you know so much about feel free to ignore everything you have read.
Whether you are supported or not the quality of the trigger press is the same.
Feel free to continue with the way you do things, nobody is forcing you to try this. The OP asked how to learn to shoot better and I made a suggestion, if this threatens what you know so much about feel free to ignore everything you have read.
