TDC; And what do you have? Some time behind the badge issuing speeding tickets and investigating break ins? I'm sure you use your gun everyday right? TDC[/QUOTE said:Yea Wicked Police spends all day issuing speeding tickets and eating donuts at Tim Hortons. When he isn't doing that he practices with his taser on unsuspecting homeless folks in the back alleys of Ottawa.
Take Care
Bob
Glock 17 - groups
- Thread starter bluemike807
- Start date
Yea Wicked Police spends all day issuing speeding tickets and eating donuts at Tim Hortons. When he isn't doing that he practices with his taser on unsuspecting homeless folks in the back alleys of Ottawa.
Take Care
Bob
Hey, if we're going to call one another out I thought I'd ask. On that note, what do you have Bob? I believe you've never received/attended any professional training.
As to the original topic of this thread. The Glock or any other quality pistol will shoot very well. Most "accuracy" issues are related to the shooter and not the gun or ammunition.
TDC
You are absolutely right TDC. I spent most of my working life taking Banking courses and enjoying a sucessful career and raising a family. It never occurred to me to spend money on tactical courses that I will never need; to improve skill sets I will never use.
What I do, do is spend my time acquiring skills that allow me to shoot IDPA/IPSC as skillfully as I can given my age and physical limitations that come with the ageing process. Some folks think I have acquired some skills they can benefit from, so I help where I can.
You likely won't understand any of the above and that is OK. The same way you don't understand there are folks who have posted on this thread who do things you only dream of. My hope is the OP can discern those and listen to their advice.
If you really think taking a couple of week-end courses somehow gives you status you really have much to learn.
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
And what skills do you think they teach you in those expensive "tactical" courses B o B since you have never taken one?
Why is it so silly to attend one of these courses? What alternatives does a person have to learn/aquire proper skills techniques on how to use a firearm, the PAL course? From someone at the range that has been doing it wrong for 30 plus years?
Greg
Why is it so silly to attend one of these courses? What alternatives does a person have to learn/aquire proper skills techniques on how to use a firearm, the PAL course? From someone at the range that has been doing it wrong for 30 plus years?
Greg
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Wrong. Supporting the pistol and pulling the trigger with your finger crammed all the way through will result in decent hits because the tendency to push or pull the sights and gun off target is minimized/mitigated by the fact the pistol is supported. Shoot off hand with your finger crammed in and your hits will be more like misses. You can't see what you're doing wrong if you don't replicate actual shooting conditions. Shooting a handgun from the bench is not a standard practice. Shooting a handgun from the bench eliminates most of the human error factor. The goal in becoming a better handgun shooter is to IDENTIFY ones errors and correct them. You can't correct what you can't identify.
I'll give another example. Most anyone can shoot from prone with a rifle and make good hits and/or a decent group. Take the same rifle and shooter and have them fire off hand(standing) and I can guarantee their groups will open up dramatically. Is this change in performance because of the gun or the shooter? Hint: Its the shooter. With a supported rifle there is less influence from the shooter, therefore improved performance. Pretty standard stuff. So the real question then is this. If you are into action shooting or are working on your off hand skills. Does firing from prone help you diagnose the problem? Does more rounds fired from prone improve your ability to hold the rifle steady when firing off hand? The answer is no, and the same thought process applies to handguns as well.
TDC
Greg you use the word "Silly". You would no better than I.
I just don't see any value in learning skill sets I have no use for. Sorry but I don't envision any circumstance in my lifetime where I might utilize tactical training. You obviously do so fill your boots.
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
What do these course teach Banker BOB? If you don't know, educate yourself then instead of running your mouth? I have learned more about shooting fundamentals than any tactics from any of the professional instructors that I have taken classes from.
I have yet to sign up or pay for any "tactical courses".
Greg
I have yet to sign up or pay for any "tactical courses".
Greg
most of the "tactical" classes teach basic marksmenship, shooting from improvised positions such as kneeling, standing, prone, on ones back and on ones side.... all skills that will be used in IDPA and/or IPSC ..... what exactly do you "think" is being taught at these clases canuck44 ??
they teach you clearence drills, they teach you how to rack the slide and clear a malfuntion with a single hand either strong hand or weak hand, the emphasize weak hand shooting and technique.... again most of these skills are applicable to sport shooting in canada. they also teach you to shoot with induced stress, either by encouraging the student verbally or making the student perform physical acts to bring the heart rate up.... pretty much all applicable in shooting sports in canada.
so what pray tell do you see wrong with these courses being offered in canada ?? where else is a student going to put 1k rounds down range in a 2 day class....these courses are straight shooting skills classes, not some IPSC Black Badge where 1/2 the content is rules and strategy of the game, or something similar as IDPA.
2 days of shooting under 2-4 instructors coaching you and correcting any mistakes or poor technique a person may have..... yeah I can see how this is of absouloutly no benefit to any "sport" shooter in canada, heaven forbid that they learn something from the many instructors available in canada like Rising Sun Tactical / One Shot Tactical ... and so on and so on......
give your head a shake, at least people that take "training" are bettering themselves....
they teach you clearence drills, they teach you how to rack the slide and clear a malfuntion with a single hand either strong hand or weak hand, the emphasize weak hand shooting and technique.... again most of these skills are applicable to sport shooting in canada. they also teach you to shoot with induced stress, either by encouraging the student verbally or making the student perform physical acts to bring the heart rate up.... pretty much all applicable in shooting sports in canada.
so what pray tell do you see wrong with these courses being offered in canada ?? where else is a student going to put 1k rounds down range in a 2 day class....these courses are straight shooting skills classes, not some IPSC Black Badge where 1/2 the content is rules and strategy of the game, or something similar as IDPA.
2 days of shooting under 2-4 instructors coaching you and correcting any mistakes or poor technique a person may have..... yeah I can see how this is of absouloutly no benefit to any "sport" shooter in canada, heaven forbid that they learn something from the many instructors available in canada like Rising Sun Tactical / One Shot Tactical ... and so on and so on......
give your head a shake, at least people that take "training" are bettering themselves....
- Location
- East ontario
Yea Wicked Police spends all day issuing speeding tickets and eating donuts at Tim Hortons. When he isn't doing that he practices with his taser on unsuspecting homeless folks in the back alleys of Ottawa.
Take Care
Bob
yep thats him, if only his days were that boring hs be a happy man...
Man you guys a full of ####, glad is xmass.
Remmber train hard fight easy!
If you think you can just plop a gun in a bag and bang off a good group like you describe above you have obviously never tried to shoot an accurate group at all before. I mean really shoot an accurate group. Yeah, it might be more accurate than just banging away in the same manner freestyle but it will be far from a "decent" group. It will be as poor of a rested group as the cramming the finger in the trigger standing will be to a freestyle group. To shoot a good group you have to work at it, its not easy. With a good grip and good trigger control I can still shoot a bad group off the bag.
That's correct and the best way to do this is breaking things down into smaller parts. Benching the gun is just a good way to work on trigger/sights.
No, it's clearly not the only thing you should be doing but it is something you should try....of course it's easier to sit in your chair and argue about it than it is to go out and try it. If you spent half the time you spent on this thread just to go out and try a few shots off the bag you might actually have something to add to this thread, good or bad.
And yet pretty much every time you learn rifle shooting they start you prone...why is that?
In the Military they always started us shooting prone before we moved on to other positions.
There is less influence from the shooter but far from none. You have to learn the basics before you can move on.
Well go back and read your post. You were the one who brought up "tactical courses" and asked me why I felt they were "silly" to use your words. Now you say you haven't taken any tactical courses????
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
No Bob I never said I took tactical courses. You are the one always refering to any courses as "tactical".
I have yet to take a course called or referred to "tactical".
I guess I took the "tactical" Safety Officer course from you.
Greg
I have yet to take a course called or referred to "tactical".
I guess I took the "tactical" Safety Officer course from you.
Greg
"Shooting from the bag will as i mentioned before, eliminate the human error factor, which is what you're trying to observe and correct. Prone/supported shooting is the easiest and most accurate because it eliminates/mitigates the human error factor. Which makes diagnosing errors from a prone/supported position next to useless."
It sure helps to determine if your sights are aligned to the ammo you are using.
I have shot Winchester White Box from a rest that wouldn't hold 5" at 15 yards. It was the ammo not the gun.
Hardly a useless exercise TDC. For reloaders developing accurate loads is one of the major benefits of our hobby and such activities extend to handguns as well as rifles.
Take Care
Bob
It sure helps to determine if your sights are aligned to the ammo you are using.
I have shot Winchester White Box from a rest that wouldn't hold 5" at 15 yards. It was the ammo not the gun.
Hardly a useless exercise TDC. For reloaders developing accurate loads is one of the major benefits of our hobby and such activities extend to handguns as well as rifles.
Take Care
Bob
Benching a gun is a valuable form of practice. Just as using targets so close you can almost tough them, just as dry fire is, just as ball and dummy is, just a malfunction drills are. The whole point is to work specific portions of a skillset. As well, having taken numerous fighting/tactical courses with both rifle and pistol, I know that occasions arise where you may be in a position where benching/bagging a gun will be the only option. Be it due to distance of target or position of the shooter and obstacles in their way. To discount the usefulness of benching a gun displays a serious lack of knowledge about the art of shooting. Calling out someone who does more shooting than most of this board combined shows an even bigger level of ignorance. Sometimes it really is better to just shut up.
Halger280HVMag
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- B.C. XMU Local .454
IMHO.
Shoot your pistol from a rest all you like.
Also shoot your pistol with wrists on a sand-bag, as well as free-standing two-handed, single-handed strong and weak side hands.
do it standing, sitting, lying in the mud.
Paper is fine to ensure that you gun is sighted to hit where you think it is. Also useful to measure your personal progress on the shot placement repeatablity scale.
Shoot at 100 yard gongs, as well as chase golf balls and pop-cans.
Always concentrating on your front sight and let-off.
Get really familiar with your pistol and shoot it a LOT.
HAVE FUN.
It's a Zen thing.
Become as one with your gun Eh!
Shoot your pistol from a rest all you like.
Also shoot your pistol with wrists on a sand-bag, as well as free-standing two-handed, single-handed strong and weak side hands.
do it standing, sitting, lying in the mud.
Paper is fine to ensure that you gun is sighted to hit where you think it is. Also useful to measure your personal progress on the shot placement repeatablity scale.
Shoot at 100 yard gongs, as well as chase golf balls and pop-cans.
Always concentrating on your front sight and let-off.
Get really familiar with your pistol and shoot it a LOT.
HAVE FUN.
It's a Zen thing.
Become as one with your gun Eh!
No kidding...it's A drill. Should you spend ALL your time with your gun on a rest? Of course not. Should you spend ALL your time doing ball-and-dummy drills? Or ALL your time shooting weak hand only? Or ALL your time in low light? Or ALL your time doing slow fire? Or ALL your time doing presentation drills?
These are all valuable drills that can impart some skill and information to the shooter. Obviously each one of them eliminates some aspects of shooting from the equation which in other cases would be necessary. But you don't work on everything, at once, all the time. You do drills which focus on one or two things at a time.
Benching a gun can be part of that. If you know when you'd be likely to benefit from it, then lay on, Macduff. There will always be people who want to challenge some aspect of what you're doing. These people may know better...but they may know worse, as well.
One tough thing about the internet is that it can be hard to know who's a pro and who isn't but just talks tough.
I think it took me two or three years on here to figure out who was who. I shoot regularly with Slavex. To say he knows what he is doing is putting it mildly. I have shot with WP...he is also a heavy hitter IMO. I have never shot with Canuck44, but I have sufficient information on the guy to know he is a reliable source of advice on shooting.
If these three guys are driving in one direction, and there is another guy waving and shouting to take a different short cut, I would be very hesitant to turn the car around and take the short cut. It might be better, sure. But I would look long and hard at a map before breaking off from the pack.
