Sub-2000 Ballistics Tested *Updated 03/07/11*

mctonyb

mctonyb

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I kept saying I'd report on the ballistics in the other thread, so here's some data from a quick trip to the range today with 4 different kinds of ammo:

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So I shot 6 shots of each type of ammo (1 to clean/prep the bore, and then recorded the next 5) then cleaned with a patch between loads. I didn't have a whole lot of different kinds of ammo on hand; but I should be picking up some more stuff tomorrow and I'll add to this post with everything else I try.

As per the small caliber I had the chrony about 5' away from the muzzle. Temperature was -9 and it was a clear day with no wind.

Here's what I found (average of 5 shots):

Sellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ: 1374fps
Sellier & Bellot 124gr FMJ: 1226fps
Hornady 124gr TAP XTP: 1419fps
Home brew 147gr JHP, 3.2gr titegroup: 943fps

Some interesting stuff looking at the numbers:
- S&B rate the 115gr FMJ's at 1279fps at the muzzle and the 124gr FMJ's at 1181fps (not a huge increase in velocity from the sub, quick powder perhaps?)
- Hornady rates the 124gr TAP XTP's at 1110 fps at the muzzle (from the sub there was a huge increase in velocity, I'm guessing they use a slower-burning powder)
- my home brew load I used data that produced 850fps out of a 4" barrel (so a decent increase in velocity through the sub, still subsonic which is what I was going for)

With the long barrel, powder will really play into getting some more extreme velocities from this thing. Any experienced carbine loaders have any advice for a hot round? I'd like to try something with some 115gr FMJ's I have.

As I mentioned; I'll keep updating this thread with different ammo I try out.
 
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Hornady 124gr TAP XTP: 1419fps

....
- Hornady rates the 124gr TAP XTP's at 1110 fps at the muzzle (from the sub there was a huge increase in velocity, I'm guessing they use a slower-burning powder)
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Hmm... might have to pick up a few boxes of the Hornady TAP for my Sub 2000...
 
That's what Kel Tec is toting in their instruction book and it's pretty close to true (if comparing to the exact same .357 load but it does surpass some of the lower-end .357 loads).

Another thing is that it might be that the 18.5" barrel (which compares to the 16" barrel they were probably testing in the instruction book) is actually a bit too long to the point you start losing velocity with the 9mm cartridge.

I hope somebody chimes in that's familiar with loading a 9mm carbine; it'd definitely help me out with figuring out a good (hot) load for this thing!


natesfitness said:
This is really interesting. The hornady 124gr TAP performance is very impressive. It's pretty close to a .357 out of a 4 inch barrel.
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mctonyb said:
That's what Kel Tec is toting in their instruction book and it's pretty close to true (if comparing to the exact same .357 load but it does surpass some of the lower-end .357 loads).

Another thing is that it might be that the 18.5" barrel (which compares to the 16" barrel they were probably testing in the instruction book) is actually a bit too long to the point you start losing velocity with the 9mm cartridge.

I hope somebody chimes in that's familiar with loading a 9mm carbine; it'd definitely help me out with figuring out a good (hot) load for this thing!
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The ballistics info I've seen included data from an 18 inch MP5 barrel, 16 inch Kel-Tec Sub2K barrel and I think a 5 inch service pistol barrel. The data showed that out of a 18 inch barrel was slightly less velocity than a 16 inch barrel with the exception of the +P 9mm loads which had higher velocity in an 18inch barrel then a 16 inch barrel. Both were way ahead of the 5inch barrel. I'll see if I can find the site.... to be continued....
 
Here we go, it contains a ton of info I forgot about this site :

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

Its interesting to see the huge velocity difference in the same barrel length. Both the Beretta CX4 and Kel-Tec Sub2K have the same length barrel but a huge difference in velocity with the same load. It goes to show there is no way to predict the velocity in a 18.5inch Sub 2K barrel without guys testing like mctonyb.
 
Awesome find, thanks! Really interesting results there..

Now if anyone knows where to buy some of that factory +p ammo, please post up!

I'm going to purchase some Hodgdon Longshot powder and work on some loads with 115gr FMJ's. That powder is considerably slower-burning and I've found some results on the net of people loading some quick rounds for both handguns and carbines with it.

I also found this data that includes some Sub-2000 numbers as well from THR: Carbine Load data



natesfitness said:
Here we go, it contains a ton of info I forgot about this site :

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

Its interesting to see the huge velocity difference in the same barrel length. Both the Beretta CX4 and Kel-Tec Sub2K have the same length barrel but a huge difference in velocity with the same load. It goes to show there is no way to predict the velocity in a 18.5inch Sub 2K barrel without guys testing like mctonyb.
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mctonyb said:
Awesome find, thanks! Really interesting results there..

Now if anyone knows where to buy some of that factory +p ammo, please post up!

I'm going to purchase some Hodgdon Longshot powder and work on some loads with 115gr FMJ's. That powder is considerably slower-burning and I've found some results on the net of people loading some quick rounds for both handguns and carbines with it.

I also found this data that includes some Sub-2000 numbers as well from THR: Carbine Load data
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to hearing about your results with Longshot, I may have to pick up some 9mm dies:D
 
I headed to the range today to test out some more loads and got some interesting results. Same testing scheme as outlined in my original post (avg fps of 5 shots).

Temp: 2, no wind, snowing pretty hard.

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I only tested one factory load; but what a shocker! This stuff is cheap!
Winchester USA value pack. 115gr FMJ: 1419fps

Next, my handloads:
115gr FMJ/4.8gr Titegroup/1.135" COL: 1366fps
- Super consistent; all shots were within 10fps of each other

124gr FMJ/4.4 Titegroup/1.105" COL: 1278fps
- Consistent as well, grouped well

115gr FMJ/7gr HS-6/1.120" COL: 1417fps

115gr FMJ/7.4gr HS-6/1.120" COL: 1508fps
- A little bit of a +P round. Shot great and had the best accuracy of them all.

147gr HP-XTP/5gr HS-6/1.100" COL: 1020fps
- My new favourite sub-sonic round. Cycled perfect and was quiet and accurate to 25 yards (could hit a 10x10" gong at 50 yards every shot too)

This target was shot at 50 yards while standing in practically a blizzard - my best grouping of the day (shot with my +p round). This is 10 shots. I'm pretty happy with the results (my little shotty that was with me today in the pic too):

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I'll keep updating this reloading adventure with the little carbine as I go. I really am enjoying this thing the more I shoot it. I also never would have thought I'd have fun loading 9mm; it was always just a disposable round to me shooting handguns. With this thing it's pretty fun/challenging figuring out the loads and seeing the results. Thanks for reading.
 
I only tested one factory load; but what a shocker! This stuff is cheap!
Winchester USA value pack. 115gr FMJ: 1419fps

Next, my handloads:
115gr FMJ/4.8gr Titegroup/1.135" COL: 1366fps
- Super consistent; all shots were within 10fps of each other

124gr FMJ/4.4 Titegroup/1.105" COL: 1278fps
- Consistent as well, grouped well

115gr FMJ/7gr HS-6/1.120" COL: 1417fps

115gr FMJ/7.4gr HS-6/1.120" COL: 1508fps
- A little bit of a +P round. Shot great and had the best accuracy of them all.

147gr HP-XTP/5gr HS-6/1.100" COL: 1020fps
Click to expand...

Interesting!

I have my Sub 2000 at the range yesterday. I originally sighted in at 25 yards, but wanted to stretch it out too 100 yards. I was pleasantly surprised that a zero for 25 yards I was still on at 100. No sight re-set:D
 
ColassalEntry: What kind of penetration advantages would be gained from this? I have one and was wondering what kinda animals I could try to take with this?
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Well, with the longer barrel on the Sub2k, you just get some more velocity from the 9mm caliber than you would from a shorter-barreled handgun. As for what to hunt with this.. Hrmm. I'm not sure how great a hunting gun it would be. Maybe rabbits, varmints, or even a coyote at close range.

natesfitness:Interesting!

I have my Sub 2000 at the range yesterday. I originally sighted in at 25 yards, but wanted to stretch it out too 100 yards. I was pleasantly surprised that a zero for 25 yards I was still on at 100. No sight re-set
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What kind of groups were you shooting at 25 and 100?

I haven't tried for accurate shooting at 100 yards yet. I've only run the 15" diameter gong. :cool:
 
mctonyb said:
What kind of groups were you shooting at 25 and 100?

I haven't tried for accurate shooting at 100 yards yet. I've only run the 15" diameter gong. :cool:
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I wasn't really testing my groups, most of the shooting I was doing was offhand. At 25 yards from bags my grouping were inside of the 2inch red circle I was shooting at. At 100 yards I was happy if they were inside the 6 inch red circle. I do find my accuracy suffers out to 100, I'll blame it on the short sight radius:D
 
Sounds like that's some good shooting to me!

natesfitness said:
I wasn't really testing my groups, most of the shooting I was doing was offhand. At 25 yards from bags my grouping were inside of the 2inch red circle I was shooting at. At 100 yards I was happy if they were inside the 6 inch red circle. I do find my accuracy suffers out to 100, I'll blame it on the short sight radius:D
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