Stevens 200

Hey guys. I just got home from shooting my Stevens 200 .223 for the first time. I painted the stock Krylon Camo Matte Black, so it's even more accurate than it was when it was Grey (that's a joke, but seriously, that Grey made me sick).

I put a Bushnell 3200 5-15x40mm on it, and EGW one piece 0MOA rail and Signature Zee Rings.

I don't have any experience with shooting rifles for accuracy, but I found this gun was very easy to keep inside a 3 inch circle at 100 yards. Every now and then it would put two shots almost in the same hole about 1/4" from my POA. It was a windy day so I think some of my troubles were due to the wind. Sometimes I'd have two good shots, and the third would be 5 inches high and 1 inch to the right. I have no idea what that crap is about, but I think its the wind (I'm pretty sure it wasn't me jerking or anything as I was trying to be very disciplined about that).

I hit the 200 yard gong every shot. With my 100 yard Zero I'd just aim 4" or 5" high of center and I'd ring it every time (not sure if I actually needed that much holdover).

Over all, for a $350 +tax .223, I'm very pleased with it.

Any thoughts on the fliers? Wind maybe? Or might that be the sign of a hot barrel (it was warm to the touch, but not hot, by any means. It was also only 6 degrees out, and I didn't shoot long strings). I was using black box 55gr 223AE Tactical, which I assume is a terrible round, so that could have been part of it. Regardless, 80% of my shots were within 2" of my POA, so for an out of the box first day try out, I'm pleased.

{Edit}
What are action screws? Just the screws that hold the stock onto the action?
Are there screws or fasteners that I should locktite or any general advise on tightening up the gun in it's stock configuration (until I get a Shilen)?
 
lejarretnoir said:
Thankyou!
You can all brag and gloat about fine shooting, tight grouping rifles either assembled by yourself or smith. That's all good, but in the end, the top wind readers take it all and sometimes a little luck factor thrown in.
Click to expand...

So why aren't there more threads on HOW TO ACTUALLY READ THE WIND AND SHOOT WITH PRECISION?????

I love tech and gear as much as the next guy but all that means a hill of hooey if you miss a change in the wind.

An absolutely top tier F class Open rig shoots in the 1's and 2's. A mediocre home job shoots in the 2's to 3's.

A great wind reader can dope the wind to within 2 mph or within the 5 ring. The rest of us go "WTF and write down 3".

That would be a full 1.5 MOA miss of condition ie missing the barn from the inside.

Personally, I prefer to spend the difference in equipment costs on practise which can actually make me more accurate.

But then blaming the equipment is so much easier...

Jerry
 
The only thing I've seen is general flag observations card I got when I shot TR back in the early 90's. The real trick was reading mirage. I think there's quite a bit out there on that from BR shooters, but to be honest, some days I get it right and some days I may have well stayed home. Yes, humble is the word.

Try shooting in a swirl. Connaught is famous for those. 5-10mph one direction, then 500 meters down range it's going the opposite at a different speed. Sometimes staying in the 5 ring is a miracle.
I remember shooting ISU 300 meter F-Class with my .223 that shot in the 2's where all my shots were nicely sitting in the X-ring except one. Single string shooting. Shoot, check conditions quickly, and machine gun them down as fast as I could check conditions each time. Mirage the same all the way through. How did one escape the 10 ring! Still scored the highest, but damn the one that got away!

Cheers,
JP Poulin
 
Stevens and savage builds work well. I like em all. I am shooting a couple of custom actions right now, they're pretty sweet. Fit and finish is nicer, bolt lift, trigger. They all can be made to shoot with a good barrel. One of the biggest plus I think is the availability of aftermarket parts for the custom 700 clones
 
lejarretnoir said:
The only thing I've seen is general flag observations card I got when I shot TR back in the early 90's. The real trick was reading mirage. I think there's quite a bit out there on that from BR shooters, but to be honest, some days I get it right and some days I may have well stayed home. Yes, humble is the word.

Try shooting in a swirl. Connaught is famous for those. 5-10mph one direction, then 500 meters down range it's going the opposite at a different speed. Sometimes staying in the 5 ring is a miracle.
I remember shooting ISU 300 meter F-Class with my .223 that shot in the 2's where all my shots were nicely sitting in the X-ring except one. Single string shooting. Shoot, check conditions quickly, and machine gun them down as fast as I could check conditions each time. Mirage the same all the way through. How did one escape the 10 ring! Still scored the highest, but damn the one that got away!

Cheers,
JP Poulin
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Come shoot with me and we can add all sorts of wonky air to that list. But you don't learn if you dont miss.

But there is no TECH is reading air. It is a SKILL that only comes with practise, keen observation and if you are lucky, some coaching.

And I see some people prefer to let EQUIPMENT TRY to do the work for them. Or should I say - $$$$. Golf being the biggest example of this.

Me, I would love to learn more about figuring out what all that swirly bumpy mass is doing between me and the target.

Seems to help my scores more then anything else I can make/have made...

Jerry
 
Jerry, one of the saddest things I've seen at a match was this new guy who bought a brand new AWS rifle in 300 WinMag combined with a Kahles scope. Total price in 1998 was $7000.
He claimed to us that were standing around admiring this piece of fantastic workmanship that it will blow us all away. Apparently, he did his homework on what was needed for a top notch precision rifle.
I said have a good shoot.
As the day went on he did some impressive shooting at 300, 500, 600 meters. Winds were very calm and the dude was having a great time of it.
Then we went back to 800, 900 meters and the winds picked up. He was very frustrated that the majority of his shots were inners and some maggies. We were also very curious how the wondergun was shooting too.
In the end, it was a Musgrave actioned .223 that took the winnings.
We never saw the man or gun again as he packed up his equipment swiftly and left without a goodbye.

There's a moral to this story somewhere and one I learned a long time ago.
Cheers
 
Just a tip I use for reading wind.

Watch the flags and don't worry about the actual speed.
- try to pull ur string of shots when the flag is blowing at the same angle as the last shot.
- if the wind is blowing at 45 degrees cut ur normal correction in half.

And also a scope with .5 mil Hesh marks helps a ton over dialing for wind. IMO.

Hope this tip helps.
 
lejarretnoir said:
Jerry, one of the saddest things I've seen at a match was this new guy who bought a brand new AWS rifle in 300 WinMag combined with a Kahles scope. Total price in 1998 was $7000.
He claimed to us that were standing around admiring this piece of fantastic workmanship that it will blow us all away. Apparently, he did his homework on what was needed for a top notch precision rifle.
I said have a good shoot.
As the day went on he did some impressive shooting at 300, 500, 600 meters. Winds were very calm and the dude was having a great time of it.
Then we went back to 800, 900 meters and the winds picked up. He was very frustrated that the majority of his shots were inners and some maggies. We were also very curious how the wondergun was shooting too.
In the end, it was a Musgrave actioned .223 that took the winnings.
We never saw the man or gun again as he packed up his equipment swiftly and left without a goodbye.

There's a moral to this story somewhere and one I learned a long time ago.
Cheers
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Yes, I see this from time to time. The LR shoots I put on a few years back was the same way. TONS of $$$ put into toys. Some shooters did great work up and got superb results. Others, not so much.

And at distance, $$$ spent had far less an impact then shooting skills, load tuning and proper prep. I saw alot of very expensive kit miss pretty massive targets.

What was very positive about the shoot was the interaction between shooters and I think that has helped to keep them in the sport. I think most are still shooting LR and I know some have become superb shooters.

If that gent had just given practise a try and learnt some wind craft, he could have done really well. He certainly had the tools to get the job done.

When looking at used cars, I see alot of Hondas and Mustangs with high mileage, solid upgrades, and worn tires. Compare that to a lot of Porsche and Ferraris some of which, after several years of ownership, still only have "5000 orig miles".

The funniest was a Ferrari limited edition supercar (about the cost of a nice house) that claimed to have only 200miles on the odometer.

What a waste of good kit.....

Jerry
 
Thx mystic, here come 4more pages... :p

Not so much an actual 700 but ones like benard with triple locking lugs yes. When they have angled lugs even more so. As far as body goes I'll always be a fan of steel single shot. Call it mind but with larger cals I like knowing there is as small of any bit of flex as possible.

When your going to spend the $$$ on such nice parts I'll still never see the reason for cheeping out on an action.

The benard P for example. You get a great triple lug action that comes with a great trigger and bolt for around $1000.

Your budget 6.5, be honest. As nice as the rifles are if it was not a budget build what action would you like to use and why?
 
AKD said:
Just a tip I use for reading wind.

Watch the flags and don't worry about the actual speed.
- try to pull ur string of shots when the flag is blowing at the same angle as the last shot.
- if the wind is blowing at 45 degrees cut ur normal correction in half.

And also a scope with .5 mil Hesh marks helps a ton over dialing for wind. IMO.

Hope this tip helps.
Click to expand...

That's not quite right, if a wind went from 9 0'clock to 11 o'clock THEN it would be half the correction. For a cross wind, I look at speed, for a head or tail wind, I watch direction. JMO
 
9 o'clock - 11o'clock you sad the same as me. Cut ur correction by half.

I will disagree with you tho and say I find a straight head or tail wind has no effect.
 
9-10:30 would be 45deg, 9-11 would be 60. A straight head or tail has no effect IMO as well, I was more making comment on 11-1 or 5-7. Switching head/tail winds are hard to shoot in.
 
Ok cool ya were on the same page.

When I said 45 I was not thinking of the actual, I was just trying to get the point out is all. But u are right.

Wind is a pretty intresting thing. I think really it takes practice and than just trusting ur gut lol.
I was shooting a competion at work on Monday and missed twice @ 300m (5.56) due to not trusting my gut. I was spoiled from shooting .308 all winter :p
 
AKD said:
Thx mystic, here come 4more pages... :p

Not so much an actual 700 but ones like benard with triple locking lugs yes. When they have angled lugs even more so. As far as body goes I'll always be a fan of steel single shot. Call it mind but with larger cals I like knowing there is as small of any bit of flex as possible.

When your going to spend the $$$ on such nice parts I'll still never see the reason for cheeping out on an action.

The benard P for example. You get a great triple lug action that comes with a great trigger and bolt for around $1000.

Your budget 6.5, be honest. As nice as the rifles are if it was not a budget build what action would you like to use and why?
Click to expand...

It seems that this little discussion has not lead to reams of fanatical fervor and hate posts. Nice for a change. Since this has remained civil, I really am curious at your thoughts on what makes a custom action better vs a Savage for the disciplines I outlined earlier.

Not trolling or trying to find faults, just a good old tech conversation (hoping it can remain that way).

We are all aware of why custom actions exist - to fix the inherent problems of a factory Rem 700 and try to improve on some basic design features. For that, there is no debate from me on how well they have done this.

But what do they provide that is better then a generic Savage?

I went through the range of common actions and got a good feeling for what did and didn't work for me. I bumped into the Stevens about 6 yrs ago and gave it a try cause I knew nothing about it, except the constant thrashing it got from Rem owners.

Well, the journey has been very informative and enlightening. I have lost track of the number of actions used but I know it exceeds 12. Add in a much greater number of barrels in a wide range of configurations, chamberings and styles and I think I have a pretty good idea of where the fence posts are.

When I say that I have tested this platform, believe me, I have.

I think the most common reason NOT to use the Savage or Stevens is its price. It comes up more often then not - its cheap. In monetary sense, yes, like rice.

But from a technical and mechanical sense, is it? Or is it more like the Electronic Quartz Crystal system that made watch making in the 'old country' obsolete?

So how can something this inexpensive be as good as something costing so much more? Why does he shoot a Sightron and not a NF? Interesting.

To answer your question directly, I use the Savage and/or Stevens actions not because of economic reasons - I can afford whatever I want or need - but because it offers me tangible benefits over the conventional front locking solid bolt actions ie Rems and its many clones.

The fact that it works so well AND is inexpensive allows so many more shooters access to the shooting sport. THAT is my main objective in discussing this action. And that rationale can be applied to the many other products I use and compete with.

Some will argue that this is all business driven. Create the hype so you can dupe poor customers into buying stuff. Really???? All my main articles and projects posted on the net were BEFORE I ever had a business.

The business has been a way to facilitate the demand the consumers created all on their own.

And if the stuff was so much junk, how come so many keep doing so well? And why does an ever increasing number of aftermarket suppliers want to support it? Some pretty fancy brands now want a piece of this pie.

We are talkiing tens of thousands of rifles sold throughout NA and reports, articles and blogs by hundreds of people I have no affiliation with. Are they all wrong too?

So the question remains, tell me what mechanical advantage ANY custom action would offer me besides the points I have already defined.

I am always on the look out for an edge that can help with my competition. If it truly gave me an advantage, I would be all over it in a heart beat....even if it cost more (Remember I shoot Bergers).

I am in the process of finding such an edge and hopefully, that will pan out but I'll keep that story for another time.

Let's hear your thoughts.

Jerry

PS, I have tried the 1 and 2oz triggers and found them not to my liking. When I am shooting F class, I favor a trigger more in the 4 to 6oz range due to the stress and excitement of the match.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am a Savage/stevens fan myself. But I do believe there is a limitation of these actions compared to Barnard, BAT, Stiller etc... They make take you to a point, but like everything else, once your shooting skill reaches a certain level and you are looking for that next step, I really think a custom action would be that step.

There is most likely a reason the top shooters in the world aren't sporting $200 stevens actions. There are many shooters that do well and even win matches with stevens actions. But, just for peace of mind, wondering if it may have made just that little bit of difference on target, maybe saving a 5 instead of dropping a point, wondering where that flyer came from etc...

If I had the extra to buy a custom action for all of my projects to come, I would have no problem dropping the coin on one. The Savage/stevens has their place, but, I don't think that it is in the winners circle for the long run....JMO
 
Budweiser360 said:
Don't get me wrong, I am a Savage/stevens fan myself. But I do believe there is a limitation of these actions compared to Barnard, BAT, Stiller etc... They make take you to a point, but like everything else, once your shooting skill reaches a certain level and you are looking for that next step, I really think a custom action would be that step.

There is most likely a reason the top shooters in the world aren't sporting $200 stevens actions. There are many shooters that do well and even win matches with stevens actions. But, just for peace of mind, wondering if it may have made just that little bit of difference on target, maybe saving a 5 instead of dropping a point, wondering where that flyer came from etc...

If I had the extra to buy a custom action for all of my projects to come, I would have no problem dropping the coin on one. The Savage/stevens has their place, but, I don't think that it is in the winners circle for the long run....JMO
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Actually, some top tier shooters ARE shooting Savage rifles in F class. Team Savage has done a very nice job of beating the pants of many shooters in 2010. They even won Bisley hands down.

And you think shooters there didn't bring their A+ game?

Sure these are some of the best shooters in the US and could likely kick some serious butt with a slingshot BUT they are making FACTORY (ummmm) Savages work at the highest levels of US and International events.

You can't fake that....

So what exactly are the limitations?

That is the tech/mech question I am after. All too often we hear OPINION.

Hard data, holes in paper. What makes them better? and why?

I did a straw pole at the V bulls match in Kamloops last fall. When I started 5 yrs ago, I was the only Savage on the line. Today, about 1/3 of the rifles are either factory rifles or using these actions.

Winning and placing has also occured locally with these actions by various shooters.

Jerry
 
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Agreed. I would however like to see advancements with the footing bolt from savage.

What kind of advancements ? I don't know. But I think it's a good direction.

Ps, mystic. I chose a sightron over a NF :p lol. You had some great points there.
 
It is an opinion, and one that I'm entitled to. Chev vs. Cadillac, Toyota vs. Lexus, VW vs. Audi. Why buy a ferrari if you can make a chevette go 200mph? Other than the chevette that lacks the optional "magnet" of sorts.... Why shoot a cut rifled barrel as opposed to button? Why shoot Berger bullets instead of Sierra's? Why use a Sightron instead of NF? Even if I pay $4000 for a new scope, why don't the clicks always produce the elevation/windage advertised? (1/4MOA adjustment actually makes a .270 MOA POI change etc....)

I'm positive the team Savage shooters wouldn't have done worse with a custom action. Plus, they also practice all year 'round, they don't lose their edge. Some people don't have that luxury, nor do they get new kit for a handshake....
 
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