For anyone doubting the quality and reliability of a Norc M4
- Thread starter greg11
- Start date
Davy Crockett
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
Why not wait for the NEA stuff?
Support a domestic supplier for not much more than the norc. I know it's a bit early to make any predictions on reliability but I'd be willing to gamble it will be better than the norc.
Always an option. I keep forgetting about NEA.
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
I for one will always doubt the reliability and quality of anything Norinco. They are worth what you pay for them.
I am glad I bought a top tier AR my first go around. Nothing but fun and enjoyment. You want to talk about reliablity and quality, check out Sabre Defence AR's. Worth every penny.
I am glad I bought a top tier AR my first go around. Nothing but fun and enjoyment. You want to talk about reliablity and quality, check out Sabre Defence AR's. Worth every penny.
- Location
- Fraser Valley BC
At this point NEA is still vapourware, while Nork is available, so you can't blame anyone for opting for Nork.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
There was a picture of a rifle covered with jam on light fighter but I can't find it.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't agree with your point of view. You can't say that Norinco is worth what you pay for it, because you're comparing western labour costs versus cheap chinese workers. You're always going to pay more when a factory worker costs $20.00 / hour vs $2.00 in Asia.
Take the Norinco 1911 45acp pistol for example, you are getting a lot of gun for your money.
The JW-25a is a pretty awesome gun, there's no denying it. It's a copy of the BRNO action patterned after the KKW trainer in 22lr. The Chinese don't even realize it, but they could probably get $500 for that gun just because it's so unique and collectible.
It's not like I'm a Norinco apologist here, but you're using a cliche to try and understand economics. I'm sure if the Chinese wanted to make an AR that would knock your socks off, they could do it, and it would still be cheaper than the western offerings.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
it would be cheaper but it would not be knocking anyone who owns a decently made rifle socks off (decent as in KAC HK SWISS LMT BCM etc.) The chinese aren't known for their ultra-high quality products for a reason. I like stuff that's built in a factory with a decent track record of QC...
North Eastern Arms
Manufacturer-Business Member
Just wait 6 more weeks and get an NEA15 for $250 more. Polygonal rifling, 1:7 twist, free float fore end, chrome alt dipped barrel, dry film lubed upper etc...... If it makes you feel better, i can have my 6 year old son build your gun so it can have that norc feel.
In my experience, there are differing tiers and levels of quality in terms of manuf and factories. You have your bottom barrel factories using chinese sweat labour, all the way to the ISO rated ones located in SEZ's throughout china where the labourers have rights, breaks, etc etc etc, to the point that multi-national are looking elsewhere to source even cheaper labour. To paint them all in the same brush is like saying that all western factories suck balls because they came out with the chevy cobalt or the hummer h2, both of which are on Consumer reports least reliable cars, neither are the solihull-built land rovers even though they have that expensive branding and marketing behind it.
Remember, Norc is not the manuf, they are the exporter. I don't know if this is true, but Norc could be potentially sourcing their M4's from 15 factories, putting the Norc Stamp on it, and exporting. We'd never know the difference. For me, if there is consistency in the manuf process so that there isn't too much of a variance between Norc M4's then I'm happy. Not unlike some of those who are experience problems with their American/Canadian-made 1911's...
In buying a norc M4, I did get what I pay for, a reliable budget shooter that will never need to go through a torture test to prove that it can put holes in paper consistently, and accurately for the type of shooting I do. The money I would of spent buying a top tier gun, I spend on 5.56 rounds, a good sling, pmags, and a red dot.
- Location
- 54°52'56"N 112°10'7"W Alpha Bravo
I hope that what you say comes to fruition, then we wont have to talk about these lame ass norc's anymore
North Eastern Arms
Manufacturer-Business Member
It has to happen, we are balls deep in this project to the tune of multiple new 5 axis cnc mills just to run the 1000+ AR's that have been pre sold.
Not that we are trying to create a panic, but for the first two months there is going to be a limited supply in Canada.
Not that we are trying to create a panic, but for the first two months there is going to be a limited supply in Canada.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
okay the first part of this para doenst make sense to me, if it is built in "15" different factories (i know a random number u thew out there) then how could there possibly be any consistency in the manuf proccess?
I know you guys love the norcs because they are a cheap black rifle and i get that, but i've just had enough of people claiming they are something they are ABOSLUTELY not.. (ie Reliable) the first one i ever held had the flash suppressor tightened on like 90* off where it should have been (the birdcage half was pointing straight left) now if a factory would allow something so obvious and egregious like that out for sale i'm sure they don't even come close to checking or enforcing specs for things like, the hardness of the working parts, the continuity of the chrome lining in the bore or even the proper fit of assembled parts. (and yes the same can be said about dpms or bushmaster but notice i have not ever said i north am made gun i said decent manuftorers meaning high-end companies with mil-contracts or known high QC standards) Say what you will about these 700 dollar "wonder guns from heaven" but to be honest it seems that most who adamently defend these guns calling them realiable and just as good and more then enough for "paper punching" are just trying to convince themselves they didn't just drop 700 dollars on a "rifle" made of cast steel that was improperly assembled. Before you jump on me i'll say it again if you want one, fill your boats, i'd never fault someone for buying one but i'm so sick of these ludicrous claims of awesomeness that i have yet to see....
consistency would come from qa/qc at the iso level, if there was one. Again, I don't know the process of how they source it. Nor do I really care. The one that I bought most certainly is not a dud. To date, i've put through approx 7200-8500 rds, and I don't recall having do IA/Stoppages that wasn't ammo or mag related.
I suppose I am a Norc Fanboy, but not to the extreme to say that I own nothing else. I have AR's by other manuf, incl "milspec" ones. After a while, they all look the same - dirty. they all require the same maintenance schedule and bits and pieces replacement, they all have the same carbon build up in the same area. Regardless of what manuf my ar's are, I treat them the same. I don't consider what some of you guys are saying about the Norc as a toy.
To me things like fit & finish, is secondary to function, as long as the barrel is tight in the upper...I'm golden.
My civvie mindset is this: if somebody were to give me the option a)1 KAC b)3 norc, I would take option c) 1 norc and difference in ammo and trg course.
I suppose for myself having something like a KAC won't make me a better shooter. Until the point that I would be able to have marked difference in shooting accuracy with a different manufacturer, I'll stick with shooting the norc et al.
