Short Magnums. What are they bringing to the field?

eeesh....

Lots of interesting comments, reading thru all the posts is kinda educational and sad at the same time...

I have wsm's, and I can sort of sum my opinion of wsm's in one word - "progression".
The case design is highly researched to be the most efficient for its cause. Same case, and a bunch of calibers to choose from.

Yes theyre more expensive. What isnt more expensive when its new? Why? R&D cost money.

Its the same as newer more efficient engines, newer more efficient fishing line, newer more efficient whatever. Wont even mention computers. Its called progression.

I am sure there was the same discussion about why 223 rem when there is already a 222.... or why a 300 win mag when theres a 3006.... or why a 308 when there already 3006... 200fps does make a difference, at least on paper. (222vs223, 308vs3006, 3006vs300wm)
Its personal choice, and we should all be free to choose what we want to shoot - regardless of what it costs.

As for the light gun thing, that has nothing to do with WSm's. Perhaps some of the gunmakers make them because they want to progress. Who cares? If anyone wants a light gun with mega recoil, wsm or not, have-at-er! Same goes for a heavy gun - who cares????
 
Jordan Smith said:
You're comparing apples to oranges. Since when was the standard long-action group of cartridges equal to the standard magnums or short mags? Show me a .270 in a factory production long action that equals the performance of the .270 WSM in a rifle as light as you say, and I'll pay attention.
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Jordan,.... Im seeing 2950fps Winchester XP3 150 in the .270 compared to 3120fps in WSM. Thats a mere 170fps at the muzzle and only 198 ft lbs more energy @ 500yds difference. Thats 1450ft lb to 1650 ft lbs. Winchester loads in xP3 do justice to both. I'm seeing an Apple compared to 5% bigger apple:redface:. You can pick whatever you want to do your comparisons, I'll pick the same platforms, with the same bullet. Can't make it any easier than that for you ,..can I?
Seeing as the .270 Kimber Montana weights 9 ounces lighter the the 270 WSM, I'll pick the 270 and live with just 1450 ft lbs at 500yds. I couldn't reliably hit in the field on a small sheep beyond that, with 400 being more realistic.
Not much of an advantage over the .270, in Practical field use with this one. Will it survive,.....if potential new buyers are lead past the Kool-aid stand? :)
 
I guess we have to ask the question , how far do you want to be able to take a game animal reliably? What distance are you really going to be shooting animals?

100 yards? 200? 500? 1,000?

Just a needs vs wants issue it looks like to me.

I find it challenge to take a given chambering and see how good you can become with it and push its ability through trial and error testing.

If you want a WSM, if you want a belted magnum, if you want a "traditional" .308 type chambering, have at it. It doesn't matter, arguing about a 200 ft pound difference in energy at a distance 99% of hunters won't be shooting at is extremely entertaining. :)

The WSM, it is just something new to try , talk about and spend money on.
 
I was using a 30-30 and 303 for about 15 years and thought I needed something new. Bought WSM's (270 & 300) to be different and not have the same as everyone else. Feel no reason to follow the crowd and get the old trusted calibers. Been there...done that. I am very comfortable with my decisions and see no reason why we would defend our choice either way. If you like something, buy it and be happy with your choice. If you have to continually comment how your choice is better than someone else's it sounds like jealousy or irgnorance...you pick.
 
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I've heard it mentioned that the wsm were brought to market only to stimulate the econonomy. I guess thats unlike Weatherby that cost an arm and a leg for the rifle not to mention the price of the ammunition. From what I've seen with my buddy's 270 weatherby, the groups look more like a shotgun blast. It also recoils more than my Kimber 7wsm and his gun weighs 9lbs, still cant figure that one out. Factory ammo for 270 weatherby 150 gr - 3100 fps, 130 gr - 3300 fps, my reloading manuals state the same thing. My wsm will do that. I won't mention the 300 wtby as it takes a cup full of powder. I believe the 7-08 to be the most efficient round, but the shortmags have their place to, and the recoil is tolerable in a lightweight rifle. I wouldnt trade in a 270win, 7rem mag or a 300wm to get one though. The mags are atleast 200 fps faster than standard cartridges. Weatherby's are junk, thats my opinion. Cheers pete
 
Good point- Any WSM "marketing gimmick" pales in comparison to the marketing machine that Roy Weatherby ramped up to sell his rifles and ammunition. :D

Roy Weatherby and PT Barnum had similar sales techniques. :p
 
What everyone seems to forget is that Weatherbys were originally wildcat cartridges, that Weatherby designed, then built Mausers and chambered them for his cartridges. Then he turned on a lot of advertising. But when the cartridges came out (and for a long time afterwards) there weren't many other cartridges that did what his did. Most here won't recall, but there were a lot of "short magnums" (what all the magnums designed on shortened H&H brass were originally called) out there. The only ones that had staying power were Wby's. A lot of that had to do with his advertising, and the use of his guns by the rich and famous of Hollywood, at the time. The WSM's real claim to fame is efficiency and less recoil for a given (near magnum) velocity, which they do deliver. I don't know why there is animosity for them, nothing wrong with marketing your product, and they do what they are supposed to do. FWIW - dan
 
People are affraid of change and what they don't understand.

How many hunters still swear that the 30-06 is the only way to go, put a modern chambering in their hand have them take an animal and they would probably proclaim witchcraft!:p


dan belisle said:
What everyone seems to forget is that Weatherbys were originally wildcat cartridges, that Weatherby designed, then built Mausers and chambered them for his cartridges. Then he turned on a lot of advertising. But when the cartridges came out (and for a long time afterwards) there weren't many other cartridges that did what his did. Most here won't recall, but there were a lot of "short magnums" (what all the magnums designed on shortened H&H brass were originally called) out there. The only ones that had staying power were Wby's. A lot of that had to do with his advertising, and the use of his guns by the rich and famous of Hollywood, at the time. The WSM's real claim to fame is efficiency and less recoil for a given (near magnum) velocity, which they do deliver. I don't know why there is animosity for them, nothing wrong with marketing your product, and they do what they are supposed to do. FWIW - dan
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Jordan Smith said:
I've tried to be very courteous in our conversation, jethunter, but don't put words in my mouth.

450fps does not = 200fps

and

me feeling a bit more relaxed does not = decisively better for mountain grizzly defense
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Jordan, I wasn't responding to your post. In the post that I was answering the difference in manufacturer's advertised velocity was 170 fps, not 450 fps. If you don't like that number then address the post that contains the information and do not get silly with me over it.

I was not targetting any individual and certainly not you, so your indignation is wasted. My only point was that it's hilarious that what started out as a reasonable discussion turned into a "bear defense thread".

I may even make some more funny (to me at least) comments. If that happens, don't assume that i am singling you or anyone else's silly comments out. If I do have anything to say that is directed at you then i will respond directly to your post.

I hope that makes you feel better, but if not i will try my best to live with it. ;)
 
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If we all put this much time and effort into something productive like...writing and emailing gun companies to start chambering the 7mm WSM again we would actually be doing something usefull....

Prophet River Edition Model 70 Stainless Fluted FWT in 7mm WSM anyone? :p
 
jethunter said:
Jordan, I wasn't responding to your post. In the post that I was answering the difference in manufacturer's advertised velocity was 170 fps, not 450 fps. If you don't like that number then address the post that contains the information and do not get silly with me over it.

I was not targetting any individual and certainly not you, so your indignation is wasted. My only point was that it's hilarious that what started out as a reasonable discussion turned into a "bear defense thread".

I may even make some more funny (to me at least) comments. If that happens, don't assume that i am singling you or anyone else's silly comments out. If I do have anything to say that is directed at you then i will respond directly to your post.

I hope that makes you feel better, but if not i will try my best to live with it. ;)
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No worries. It was just a misunderstanding, I guess. When I said 450fps I was referring to the difference between the 7-08 and the 7WSM ;)

There is no indignation or aggression coming from over here. I just don't like being mocked or degraded when I'm trying my best to maintain a certain level of courtesy and respect in a conversation. Like I said- looks like a simple misunderstanding. And I agree that the thread has gotten quite silly in some ways. Thanks for your explanation :)
 
WSM cartridges are alright

My dad got a good 100yard 3 shot group with the 300wsm about 3 weeks ago.

He is a Man that has Vast Knowledge and experience,when it comes to firearms :evil:

http://
 
That's pretty average for most of the WSM's I've loaded for. They mostly seem to be quite accurate. Newish tooling for chamber cutting etc might help, too. :)
 
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