New .455 webley bullet?

[jethunter]

Has anyone tried bullets cast in the Lee Bullet mold 456-220-1R in a .455 webley yet?

I just bought the mold and haven't cast any bullets yet. It makes a .456", 220 gr bullet. Round nose, flat base.

I've had excellent results using 250 gr .455 flat base bullets in some .455 webley revolvers. OTOH, some of the tight throated revolvers will only shoot properly with hollow base bullets.

I haven't checked it out in Quickload yet, but should theoretically be able to get some useful increase in velocity with the lighter bullets. Or shoot the same velocity at lower pressure, which is a good thing in a 100+ year old pistol.

The mold with handles was only about $25 at WSS Edmonton. The bullet is a copy of one used in an old colt cap and ball revolvers, I think, but looks like it might make an interesting webley bullet to experiment with. Any thoughts?

 

[DEZ]

I have one the bullets base is smaller in diameter than the next driving band they are for a lack of a better way to descibe them tapered . They were desinged that way to allow easy starting in cap and ball revolvers never tried them in a cartridge.

 

[sandermar]

No, but I'd love to her from you how they work. I will be looking for a mold to start casting for my Webley in the near future.

M.

 

[Milsparro]

I shoot 200 grain bullets in my Webley.

 

[762mm]

Must be a new mold? I have not seen one offered when I got me a .452 200 gr Lee mold for my Webley some 2 years ago or so. Great news, but accurate data may be hard to find with this new mold, due to the non-standard bullet weight.

My late edition Lyman's pistol reloading manual (which covers a lot of the now popular "cowboy" cast bullet reloads in, among others, 45 ACP, 45 Autorim and 45 Schofield) does not even include that particular bullet weight in its' data tables. Unless of course Lee provided you a corresponding table with their .455 Webley dies... ? The bullet diameter does indeed indicate like it's purpose built for a 455 gun, so it wouldn't be surprising for Lee to post data in their die sets.

If not, I figure that a bit of gradual experimenting with a chrony is probably in order before calling a good load. No biggie if you have the setup already.

 

[jethunter]

I cast 30 of these bullets tonight. I'm going to load them in Hornady MKII .455 webley cases for a MKI revolver, and in starline .45 S&W Schofield brass to try out in a .476 WG and a .476 RIC.

As cast, the bottom band is smaller (.450") than the other bearing surfaces (.456"), just as DEZ said it was. I don't know how that's going to affect performance, if at all.

For now i'm using the same powder charges I'd use in the heavier 250 and 265 gr bullets i usually use in these cartridges. If results are favourable i might try and adjust the powder charge for this lighter bullet. But for now I'll just see if they shoot.

 

[Al-Sway]

Hope you have better luck than I did. I bought the same style of mould for my .455 with the hopes that the .456 diameter would work better than the normal .454 bullets cast from other moulds.
Long story short, for me they did not work. Poor accuracy and leading. The small base diameter promoted gas cutting, among other problems.

 

[dakotamar]

Do you use these right out of the mold or do you size them afterward and what size die do you use?

 

[cyclone]

I cast 30 of these bullets tonight. I'm going to load them in Hornady MKII .455 webley cases for a MKI revolver, and in starline .45 S&W Schofield brass to try out in a .476 WG and a .476 RIC.

As cast, the bottom band is smaller (.450") than the other bearing surfaces (.456"), just as DEZ said it was. I don't know how that's going to affect performance, if at all.

For now i'm using the same powder charges I'd use in the heavier 250 and 265 gr bullets i usually use in these cartridges. If results are favourable i might try and adjust the powder charge for this lighter bullet. But for now I'll just see if they shoot.

Results ?

 

[jethunter]

Shot them today. Bullets are 221 gr, .456" unsized. Cast from half ww and half pure lead. No serious accuracy testing, just offhand shooting at 15 and 20 yards.

1. Webley .455 MKI Revolver, 4" barrel using Hornady MKII .455 brass.
-No leading for 12 shots fired, 710 fps avg on 3 shots
-bullets seated so that 1 lube groove was left outside the case. Reason being that seating both grooves in the case reduces capacity to the point QL estimated a major pressure spike
- no keyholing at 20 yards

2. Webley RIC Revolver, .476 Enfield, 4" barrel. Starline .45 S&W Schofield brass. Bullets seated so both grooves are inside the case.
- 780 fps 3 shot avg.
- no leading in bore for 10 shots
- no keyholing at 20 yards

3. Webley WG .476 Enfield, 6" barrel. (same cartridge/load as used in the RIC)
- 890 fps 3 shot avg
- slight leading in bore for 10 shots
- no keyholing at 20 yards

 

[jethunter]

Do you use these right out of the mold or do you size them afterward and what size die do you use?

You could size them to .455" but I wouldn't be too nervous about using .456" diameter soft cast bullet in a .455" bore. That's what I did with the MKI revolver.

 

[John Sukey]

There is a very good reason why the Webley bullet is hollow based. If you want a surprise, mike the front of the chamber on a Webley cylinder.

 

[dakotamar]

There is a very good reason why the Webley bullet is hollow based. If you want a surprise, mike the front of the chamber on a Webley cylinder.

I believe the front of the cylinder is .450 from what I have read. this forces the size of the bullet down and that is why they 'wooble' down the barrel.

I put some 454190 down mine unsized. I didn't get a chance to chrony them. I now have some 454190 sized to 454 and 452 to try. I am thinking the .452 will turn out to be the best, as stated the webley preferrs hollow based bullets which expand in the barrel to get the proper sizing.

 

[jethunter]

There is a very good reason why the Webley bullet is hollow based. If you want a surprise, mike the front of the chamber on a Webley cylinder.

I believe the front of the cylinder is .450 from what I have read. this forces the size of the bullet down and that is why they 'wooble' down the barrel.

I put some 454190 down mine unsized. I didn't get a chance to chrony them. I now have some 454190 sized to 454 and 452 to try. I am thinking the .452 will turn out to be the best, as stated the webley preferrs hollow based bullets which expand in the barrel to get the proper sizing.

I have measured cylinder throats in MKI and MKII .455 service pistols that vary from .451" to .455". The .454 and .455 throated cylinders will shoot flat base bullets very well. Using FB bullets is good if your pistol will shoot them because they are less expensive and easier to cast if you make your own.

If your throat is .452" or less and your bore is .455", chances are no FB bullet will work very well, regardless what it is sized to.

In some cases the base of the FB bullet will obturate like a HB bullet if the lead is soft enough and the powder charge is strong enough. I shoot the .455" lyman 454190 in a .453" throated MKII and it works decent with stiffer loads and not worth crap with light loads.

The HB bullets are also the only option in the .45acp converted webleys that have weak rifling from shooting jacketed bullets. The hollow base seems to expand and grip worn rifling much better than the FB bullets do.

 

[Rotaxpower]

Do you have an update on this bullet? How is it shooting? I just bought this mold too.

 

[jethunter]

It shoots OK in my webleys. It's a useful webley bullet, along the same lines as any other FB bullet. The HB bullets will be more suitable for the revolvers with throats that are smaller than their bores.

 

[buckbrush]

there is a .455 Hollow base mould group buy being run on Cast Boolits.

 

[jethunter]

there is a .455 Hollow base mould group buy being run on Cast Boolits.

I'm already on that list. I have both .455 and a .457 moulds ordered.

 

[jethunter]

Do you have an update on this bullet? How is it shooting? I just bought this mold too.

Tried it in a .476 chambered WG and RIC and unmodified .45 S&W Schofield brass. It shoots much closer to POI than any other bullet I've tried in these pistols, including HB. The WG is perfect with this bullet, shooting spot on to POI at 20 yards. Looks like I need to run off another batch of boolits.

 

[dingus]

The best bullets ive shot yet in a 476 caliber Enfield MKII and WG revolvers is a RNHB .458 bullets i have.
They fill out and shoot really good even in the enfield MKII revolvers.
I got mine custom cast local and am very impressed with them.

Trying to get any bullets to shoot good in a 476 cal guns is tough because the orignal 476 bullets were Heeled bullets.

Anyway i know thats nothing to do with this mold but for years i have used theses RNHB bullets sized .458 and they do work in the .460 dia bore guns.

Also a trick if you have a gun thats 476 chambered then a 45 schofield case will chamber nice with the forward side of the ruim thined to 455 case thickness in most guns. some guns WG mainly you dont even need to thin the rims on some guns.
Enfield MKIIs tho you gota thin the rims on the forward side.
I use my custom bullets in the rim thinned 45 schofield case putting the bullets even closer to the forceing cone that the orignal 476 cal rounds.

Im getting nice groups useing Trail boss loads. Its nice to finely get theses 476 cal guns to shoot good.