Antique Letters kept on your file - proof

41 Colt

41 Colt

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I sent in a FOI request a few years ago, and was surprised to see my antique letters in amongst my info, but even more surprised to see it at the top of the pile.

The first group of sheets are letters acknowledging my request for the info, correction forms, blah blah... The second group of sheets are my licence application forms and CFSC test score forms. The third group, before anything having to do with my registered guns, are copies of my antique letters, followed by what I scanned below.

I know people feel better having them when it comes to informing the police or a CO of what the gun is when you are walking around with a handgun in the bush, but as I have said before the CFC keeps the info you give them about antique guns.

Lets not get into a debate about the fact that I can sell, and have infact sold, all the guns to which I had associated letters and have no clue where they are, I just wanted to point this out with proof.

2rddapv.jpg
 
Well we're all just such a big threat to society dont cha know!, just the fact that we own loosly regulated 120 year old pistols must mean we're morally unhinged and 2 seconds away from going ballistic, its only logical.

:puke:
 
I have also received a FOI request from a few years ago. I was a little surprised to see copies of letters & emails that I have sent to government ministers regarding Canada's gun laws.
 
Not for me, this voluntarily provided record of ownership.

RCMP letters are not the only way to conclusively document an antiques perscribed status.

FRT numbers are verifiable by LEO's. Customs forms, scholarly firearms history books, etc.

This 'Firearm Data Form' can not in any way benefit me, but could perhaps harm if that do-gooder, anti, neighbor calls in a bogus "I'm scared" to the police. Doubt they would halt their search if told "I sold it'.
 
Meh... I don't care much about what they have on file, as it's all legit. Selling and trading antiques is fully legal too, so anything on file as far as antiques are concerned isn't worth jack sh*t.... plus I might've actually gotten a few of these "antique letters" for antique guns I intended to bring in from the States, but never did in the end. So the guns are actually still in Uncle Sam's country, not ours (despite the existence of letters for them up here).

Then again, I guess some form of tracking is expected and even needed in order to ascertain that the letter is not a forgery and was indeed issued to an individual at one point or another... If you notice, your letters all have security reference numbers on them (in other words, they are intended to be traceable). That was the first thing I noticed when I got my very first one... I knew right away what the story was behind it, but never even gave it a second thought when asking the CFC for more. In this day and age where they can't put organized crime behind bars for smuggling in full autos on a daily basis due to a lack of presentable Court evidence, I think I'm pretty safe with my antique letters being "on file" in some CFC basement server room, lol. :D

Personally, I think the CFC just uses those for statistical purposes more than anything else... to show the government that they're busy and therefore needed. Kind of like the fact that "the registry is used 14,000 times a day by police" thing (a blatant lie that keeps many people employed). Everyone needs job security, right?

:rolleyes:
 
762mm said:
Meh... I don't care much about what they have on file, as it's all legit. Selling and trading antiques is fully legal too, so anything on file as far as antiques are concerned isn't worth jack sh*t.... plus I might've actually gotten a few of these "antique letters" for antique guns I intended to bring in from the States, but never did in the end. So the guns are actually still in Uncle Sam's country, not ours (despite the existence of letters for them up here).

Then again, I guess some form of tracking is expected and even needed in order to ascertain that the letter is not a forgery and was indeed issued to an individual at one point or another... If you notice, your letters all have security reference numbers on them (in other words, they are traceable).

Personally, I think the CFC just uses those for statistical purposes more than anything else... to show the government that they're busy and therefore needed. Kind of like the fact that "the registry is used 14,000 times a day by police" thing (a blatant lie that keeps many of them employed). Everyone needs job security, right?

:rolleyes:
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I guess you have some valid points there, I'm just a grouch.
 
Tyockell18 said:
I guess you have some valid points there, I'm just a grouch.
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Aren't we all, occasionally? Post-Liberal gun control nonsense will do that to ya... :D

Seriously though, everything is tracked. Your Canada Post shipments are more than likely tracked and linked to your address in some government server room... so every time you order from a certain online store, they know about it . If that store happens to sell reloading supplies and ammo and you order frequently, they know you're probably sitting on a pile of powder that could rival a fully loaded WWII B-52. Data storage is dirt cheap nowadays and a single 2 TB hard drive for $100 could probably track all CP shipment data for the next few thousand years, at least (just as an example).

Is that a cause for concern? Only if you're up to something no good. Operations like that don't need publicity and only expose themselves in times of great urgency.

So... have a beer and don't worry. No one is out to get you. Hopefully...

:p
 
762mm said:
Meh...
Personally, I think the CFC just uses those for statistical purposes more than anything else... to show the government that they're busy and therefore needed. Kind of like the fact that "the registry is used 14,000 times a day by police" thing (a blatant lie that keeps many people employed). Everyone needs job security, right?

:rolleyes:
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I'm pretty sure it's at 19000 times a day now:)
 
These antique letters were they from the Government or private business???
If they are from private business then I would be concerned.
I have 3 antique handguns so I should know what an antique letter is but I don't so can someone help me out with this???
 
Skinny 1950 said:
These antique letters were they from the Government or private business???
If they are from private business then I would be concerned.
I have 3 antique handguns so I should know what an antique letter is but I don't so can someone help me out with this???
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They're issued by the CFC if you call and request them (CFC: Canadian Firearms Center). They're not mandatory, but being issued by the RCMP they help when you come across some range inspector or LEO who's oblivious to what the criminal code actually states about antique firearms (as in no license/registration/ATT required).

Happened to me once... and the oblivious individual happened to be the shooting club owner. He was in the business for 25 years, he said... and never heard of an "antique-class firearm" (he thought I was putting him on when he saw my antique six-shooter punching holes in paper at the range, then threatened that I might get arrested if the gun is not registered... antique or not). Go figure.

:rolleyes:


Bottom line is, they do help and they are free - well, maybe not exactly, as we all pay for them through our taxes. :D So, you can either build yourself a binder documenting each of your antiques with pre-1898 catalog pictures or books and references to the law (that most people, including street level LEOs, won't believe anyway) or you can simply carry an official RCMP letter stating that your gun is antique and therefore exempt from certain dispositions of the law. My vote is for the latter, even if those letters are being saved in some obscure and totally useless database at Miramichi. The said database is only accurate on the day the letter is printed and sent out anyway, then it becomes outdated... and useless.

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Southlander said:
I would suggest that the intent behind keeping these letters on your file is far more dubious than just job security.
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Yes thats why i use FRT Letters mostly now they blanket cover and entire model of guns like MKIs and mKIIs webleys or 1873 french models but some guns over lap into 1900s so they are not listed as antique.
The good thing is i have 100s of letters on file and only about 6 or 7 keepers so what good do the letters do cfc then.
My memory is terible and i dont keep any records so the letters end with me.

But Southlander is likely right if the laws ever change and you requested a letter for your antique gun that you own they can use that letter to link it to you.
Mind you if they make antiques into a registerd guns then there gona have and imposible task trying to find them all.

Even in england they dont have to have a licence or registration for antique handguns but they cant shoot them like we can.

Im not surprised that they keep records tho as they give out the letters how else can they verify your letter as correct and not a fake if they dont keep a copy with that FIN # on file.
 
41 Colt said:
Lets not get into a debate about the fact that I can sell, and have infact sold, all the guns to which I had associated letters and have no clue where they are, I just wanted to point this out with proof.
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Thanks for that...:yingyang:....frightening :eek: , saddening :( , but important to know....:wave:
 
Earlier this year I found out that they were keeping info in a similar way. Called and asked if they kept the info on file and was told they did not. Called back again and got a different tech, told her that I'd lost my antique paperwork and wanted another copy. She asked for the name of the gun, I gave it, she pulled up the file with the serial number etc etc.
 
H Wally said:
Earlier this year I found out that they were keeping info in a similar way. Called and asked if they kept the info on file and was told they did not. Called back again and got a different tech, told her that I'd lost my antique paperwork and wanted another copy. She asked for the name of the gun, I gave it, she pulled up the file with the serial number etc etc.
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So question is, are they lying to you or just didnt know any better?. I have difficulty believing the second scenario.....
 
cyclone said:
I'd just like to say again that the boldfaced lie the CFC has been presenting to us about this to-date is incredibly offensive and appalling....:(
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Perhaps... but did you actually believe that absolutely no records would have been kept? If there's nothing strictly prohibiting them from doing it, then they are free to do whatever they wish. Plus let's not forget that you're the one calling them and requesting the letter, so the expectation of your privacy (from the CFC) is pretty slim in that case... none, actually (as you're voluntarily giving them your info). Even though the actual data may be useless once it's entered, they can still keep a record of the "transaction" between you and them.

ovrec


I am really interested to see what the new LGR Bill will state in relation to current records. In news reports, the CPC has vouched that the registry would be scrapped and all records pertaining to long guns destroyed. Now if the CFC still decides to keep those records (of long gun registrations), that will be cause for concern, as they will be contravening the law. For now though, they are in full compliance in regards to record keeping.

That said, they shouldn't be lying about it though, as that's pretty low on their part. Transparency should always be upheld in such situations by public entities (when a citizen asks a direct question and expects an honest answer), as it builds trust and credibility with citizens. Their alleged KGB-style evasive answers are truly inappropriate in that case.

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While I am generally suspicious of government, I think some of you guys are overreacting. All the letter shows is that you at one time owned that antique, not current ownership. I believe the convenience of owning the letter far outweighs it's bigbrother downside.
 
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