Best Black Rifle for the Money? (prizes for best responses!)

being a lefty, IMHO the RFB wins it for me. Completly ambi, small and compact and 308 ! being Non res is a plus but price might be too high for some.

I also own a norinco m4gery which I love as well but being limited to the range puts it in second place for me.

I'm also a fan of my XCR, fun gun for what it is and I havent had any issues with mine
 
I really hate to get on the nut hugging NEA train. I really do. Personally all the #####ing, moaning, whining, nut hugging NEA threads have made me a little sick to my stomach.

Then I shot one, a few weekends ago. I have to admit that I did throw up twice the next morning, but I think that had more to do with eating left over chicken the night before. But as I was puking up large chunks of undigested chicken and red peppers into my kitchen sink, I thought to myself, you know, that NEA rifle really is a great value for under $1k.

The next night, as I poured copious amounts of Drano into my sink followed by a good reaming with a wire coat-hanger to release the huge clog caused by the previous mornings puking, I went over the features of the NEA in my head.

Billet flat top receiver, full length billet forearm, awesome specs on the barrel, FA bolt group, all the standard furniture, and all that with Canadian manufacture. It shoots smooth, seems reliable, is accurate, well balanced, and they seem to stand behind their product. It really is the best value in a Black rifle in Canada.

Now it remains to be seen if I'll puke my guts out when I fire the next NEA, but I don't think so. It's a chance I'm willing to take.:D
 
I'm sticking with the STAG, 16". About $1400, comes with sights, mostly all mil spec parts(less replacement cost down the road), and you get into all of the after market AR goodness.
 
Well I have very little experience with REAL black rifles but from what I do own...

My XCR in 6.8 and mini 30 in 7.62 are just fine for me. Reasons...

NON restricted status tops the list, followed by what I think are unique calibers, that I can hunt with...Also they (semi-autos) are fun to shoot!

I even bought a benelli m4 (18.5) last month (first semi shotgun owned) and so my mossberg 500 pump might never see daylight again.

I'll be looking for a semi 223 in the new year thinking Benelli but if I can afford/swing it(wife), I would be interested in a Swiss.

I maybe tempted down the road for a XCR M if I can get something in 243 or 7mm-08.

I wish we could just shoot AR's everywhere but until that is a reality I doubt I will ever own one, and yes that makes me sad! because from what I have seen and read on these boards over the last few years makes me drool like a retarded kid, with a fat lip, on the winky bus stuck in traffic mid july with an ice cream cone.

NO offence meant to anyone here on CGN who may be or knows someone retarded.
 
I interpret the criteria to mean:

Best rifle for the money which is presently available at retail in quantity to anyone with an RPAL or PAL in Canada.

This immediately kills some of the obvious contenders because they are sold out and WAY backordered, available in only tiny quantities or are discontinued.

I take this to kill:

-AR180B (discontinued)
-KelTec RFB (WAY backordered)
-CORE15 (backordered everywhere)
-Colt 6920 or Noveske anything (brought it so infrequently in such small quantities to not be a viable choice)

I also believe that the best bang for the buck for the most people has to be avialable to guys who would have to drive 1hr+ to get to a range where restricted is allower, so the winner should be non-restricted. This eliminates the NEA-15 offerings for some people.

It should also be accurate, so this kills the Mini-14 and Mini-30.

I think that for the money, portability, non-restricted classification and ability to take many AR accessories, you'd be limited to:

Bushmaster ACR (availability is an issue)
JR Carbine (mag feeding issues, ugly)
Thureon Defence (availability sucks)
RobArm XCR (expensive)
KelTec SU16 (new, perhaps untried)
MR-1 (too expensive for what you get)

I think I have to vote for the SU-16. It is NOT for me. But according to how I broke down the criteria, it takes a lot of readily available AR15 accessories, is non-restricted, and is pretty inexpensive. It is also more readily available than many black rifles.

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I think the LMT ARs are the best value for what you get; a DI system from a reputable manufacutre with military contracts globally, and good customer service support for civilians. The quality and specs are Tier 1 for those who subscribe to the grading system, and with the MRP models you have the option of a piston conversion.

LMT Because Failure is not an Option.
 
Kel-Tec RFB
Compact with a lot of punch. and best of all Non-restricted.
Will take down any game in North America.
Forward ejecting brass. Ambidextrous. Bull-Pup.
What more can you ask for...

My shipping adress is... Thanks Blaxsun
 
JAGDMORDER said:
Most definatley MR1 or CZ858 for being NR and great value for the dough. What do I WIN. tehehe.
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Nothing. The CZ isn't a black rifle. The MR1? Really? Have you tried one? Geez the Germans figured out better ergonomics in 1942 when they started development for the assault rifle. Now we have a 21st century rifle with a crap layout and garbage for mounting any optics on it. Unless you favour the chin weld. Sorry but that firearm is a huge fail especially for $1500-1700. No thanks. Oh yes I do actually like the CZ. But it's not really a black rifle.
 
Non-Restricted I am gonna have to say the Robinson Arms XCR simply because it has given me so much pleasure not only owning one, but also watching Blaxsun track down every XCR thread on CGN and post his signature Lock-Tite comments :p

Restricted choice will be the Noveske Carbine. F**k Yeah!... that is all.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Nothing. The CZ isn't a black rifle. The MR1? Really? Have you tried one? Geez the Germans figured out better ergonomics in 1942 when they started development for the assault rifle. Now we have a 21st century rifle with a crap layout and garbage for mounting any optics on it. Unless you favour the chin weld. Sorry but that firearm is a huge fail especially for $1500-1700. No thanks. Oh yes I do actually like the CZ. But it's not really a black rifle.
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I've yet to try an MR1 because the user experience stories keep scaring me away...
 
Slug870 said:
Non-Restricted I am gonna have to say the Robinson Arms XCR simply because it has given me so much pleasure not only owning one, but also watching Blaxsun track down every XCR thread on CGN and post his signature Lock-Tite comments :p

Restricted choice will be the Noveske Carbine. F**k Yeah!... that is all.
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That loctite endorsement isn't going to pay for itself! ;)
 
It's not a black rifle, but a black rifle trainer:

An old Ruger 10/22 that you've had for ten or more years,

accompanied by Butler Creek mags that you've had for just as long,

mated with a new Archangel 556 chassis,

and a brand new 12.5" barrel.

Sights are optional, but anything will work.

Cheap fun, a way to gain some feel for the AR platform, and your kids (grandkids) will be spending quality time with you.
 
Clobbersauras said:
I really hate to get on the nut hugging NEA train. I really do. Personally all the #####ing, moaning, whining, nut hugging NEA threads have made me a little sick to my stomach.

Then I shot one, a few weekends ago. I have to admit that I did throw up twice the next morning, but I think that had more to do with eating left over chicken the night before. But as I was puking up large chunks of undigested chicken and red peppers into my kitchen sink, I thought to myself, you know, that NEA rifle really is a great value for under $1k.

The next night, as I poured copious amounts of Drano into my sink followed by a good reaming with a wire coat-hanger to release the huge clog caused by the previous mornings puking, I went over the features of the NEA in my head.

Billet flat top receiver, full length billet forearm, awesome specs on the barrel, FA bolt group, all the standard furniture, and all that with Canadian manufacture. It shoots smooth, seems reliable, is accurate, well balanced, and they seem to stand behind their product. It really is the best value in a Black rifle in Canada.

Now it remains to be seen if I'll puke my guts out when I fire the next NEA, but I don't think so. It's a chance I'm willing to take.:D
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Well I would agree on paper. But I haven't seen any real accuracy results from these. From a barrel with those specs I would expect to see this. The free float handguard has been improved so it's better with less of the not so aesthetically pleasing pinch on the sides. The trigger is now being changed because it was far too heavy before. I don't really know about the billet vs forging and there are a ton of threads on that already. But it is a different spec.

Now cost of these lower priced options. Well I looked at the NEA upcoming Monolithicrail. Price is listed at $1450. That's pretty good. But... the LMT MRP export model was under $1700. The stock on it is now correct (just put some more holes in the tube to fix the export stuff). So no flash hider. But it does come with a target crown. Also add in that it comes with a good stock, and I like the Ergo grip even though my non LMT rifles have Magpul on them. Suddenly that $1450 is only about $100 less after you upgrade the stock options to something in the same league as the LMT. That's if you only go $100 up such as a CTR.

Now add in other companies such as Stag which come at Colt specs in Canada. Or Armalite. Armalite I think is under rated. The forgings on mine are perfect and a match for the LMT MRP I own. Fit/finish is perfect on the Armalite as is the LMT. The upper has dry lube, the bolt is staked etc.

Don't get me wrong I believe the NEA and Core rifles have helped with prices coming down and the US situation has helped with availability. I've been watching these two. However one thing I've noticed is once you get the upgraded models they're almost the same price as the higher end stuff. So until I start seeing a lot of reviews and something to differentiate them I'll stick with the brand names I know.

At this time I'm not so sure I would call them the best value. A lot of good stuff has hit our shelves at very attractive prices lately.
 
blaxsun said:
I've yet to try an MR1 because the user experience stories keep scaring me away...
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I wanted one to go with my Storm. But.. I picked one up and the ergonomics were F@#$@# horrid. I could live with the charging handle on the right side but what was with the rest? Also the stock sucked if you were planning on using anything other than the ghost sites it came with. It was like a shotgun that wanted to be a 223. The value just wasn't there.

While not a black rifle, the Mini14 target is the best for price/performance for an accurate non restricted semi auto. The ergonomics while flawed are still better than the MR1. That's sad. There's the laminate version that I have and a Hogue stocked version. Accuracy is very good.

The XCR. Another rifle I wanted to like, but when I picked one up it just wasn't for me. It's hard to describe, on paper it's perfect. But in real life it just didn't seem right to me. All loctite jokes aside, I wasn't a fan. I can't really explain why. I try to stay neutral on that one, because I'm not sure exactly what it is that causes me to dislike it. On paper I was ready to buy one. The price also plays a factor on this one.
 
Epoxy7 said:
The XCR. Another rifle I wanted to like, but when I picked one up it just wasn't for me. It's hard to describe, on paper it's perfect. But in real life it just didn't seem right to me. All loctite jokes aside, I wasn't a fan. I can't really explain why. I try to stay neutral on that one, because I'm not sure exactly what it is that causes me to dislike it. On paper I was ready to buy one. The price also plays a factor on this one.
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Yeah, I had the same feeling when I picked an XCR up. There are some rifles that instinctively feel natural in your hands and for whatever reason the XCR just didn't do it for me.
 
I personally didn't like the stock on the XCR, nor the mag release, mind you if I could buy one for a good price, I wouldn't turn my nose up at it, it's the closest non-restricted black rifle to an AR that we got
 
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