- Location
- AB foothills
You are a beginner in rifles and scopes but you plan on taking 500 yard shots on caribou?
Accurate 30-06 for hunter
- Thread starter brayen
- Start date
You are a beginner in rifles and scopes but you plan on taking 500 yard shots on caribou?
canadaman30
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Far from the City
You are a beginner in rifles and scopes but you plan on taking 500 yard shots on caribou?
Agree X2
That makes sense. Tradex seems to have a great deal of choices - not sure what they have right now in 30-06... Another posted the vanguard sub moa which would be a logical choice as well.
Personally I wouldn't even think of making a 500 yard shot without complete faith in my rifle and abilities. Last thing I would like to see through my scope is a wounded animal escape because of my poor marksmanship.
Trajectory on a 30-06 rifle sighted in for 500 yards with a 15mph cross wind will be 30 inches off target, That's an @ass shot to me = 1 wounded animal. That doesn't even take into account the fact that they'll most likely be moving if they're on a frozen lake, which would very likely put you right off target.
I'm not one to curb your enthusiasm, but 500 yards is a huge shot to this hunter. Perhaps you could find yourself a very accurate $600 rifle, a good scope, then work on your stalking skills to get within say 300 yards before making a well rested shot? A big part of the fun of hunting for me is the sneak closer...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The .30/06 is a fine cartridge and normally a bolt action rifle will produce the level of accuracy you're after. Check Tradex from the list above and look for a Husqvarna 1600 Series 21" lightweight, the ones I've seen thus far have been very good; my wife's bear gun is a tweaked 21" 1600 in .30/06. The one small disadvantage is that these rifles come with a 1:12 rather than 1:10 twist, so they don't do particularly well with very long bullets, but they do shoot with bullets up to 180 grs, and the shorter (read round nose flat base) 200 and 220 gr bullets.
With respect to exposing these rifles to the elements, I wouldn't be too concerned, as the quality of the wood is normally pretty good. As time and cash permits, you can have your rifle bedded and have the steel Gun Koted. In the meantime, the wood can be protected with paste wax or boiled linseed oil, and as long as the steel is wiped down and oiled after being exposed to wet conditions, it will be fine.
For your purposes I would look for a used fixed 6X scope from any of the big name makers. Check the EE and Tradex for good value used optics. Mount your scope in traditional Weaver mounts, which are the best inexpensive mounts I can think of. These tend to be a bit of a pain to tighten onto the scope tube without making it roll because they tighten from one side, but once straight and tight, it will stay put even when subject to rough handling. To a degree they can be used as a quick detachable rings should you want to use the irons, but your milage may vary with just how repeatable they are.
Once you have your rifle you can begin to shoot it from field positions and determine pretty quickly what your maximum range on game sized targets will be. Don't go afield with a rough 100 yard zero and assume you are capable of making quarter mile shots. Spend some time at the range to establish what your realistic limitations are. Once you have defined your limitations you can work on extending them. I would urge you to handload your ammo as soon as possible. This will enable you to shoot more than you can with factory ammo, and it is only with exposure to shooting under all sorts of conditions that will enable you to grow as a marksman.
1- Put 12 inch target out on frozen lake 500 yards away
2- Back up to original position and shoot 10 shots at it....
3- check target
4- If it doesn't have at least 9 holes in it rethink your hunting strategy or start practicing
2- Back up to original position and shoot 10 shots at it....
3- check target
4- If it doesn't have at least 9 holes in it rethink your hunting strategy or start practicing
thank you very much keeping me informed of your advices.
There's some interesting rifle in EE, a savage weather warrior and also a ruger m77.
No one as been talking about Ruger. One thing i need to consider is the frost. The rifle need to resist to the cold. We are often hunting sub -30 celcius (without wind). Anyway, when it go to -30 celcius to -40, 90% of the time, there's no wind at all on the lake.
All of you are rights, i just want your advices about what would be a good (acceptable choice) for my bugdet (600$ rifle new or used) and 600$ scope(new and used). In the 30-06.
I will never pretend to a Super accurate rifle, but just an rifle and a scope Able to be accurate (shoot in 12" scare at 500 yards and sub 500 yards).
There's some interesting rifle in EE, a savage weather warrior and also a ruger m77.
No one as been talking about Ruger. One thing i need to consider is the frost. The rifle need to resist to the cold. We are often hunting sub -30 celcius (without wind). Anyway, when it go to -30 celcius to -40, 90% of the time, there's no wind at all on the lake.
All of you are rights, i just want your advices about what would be a good (acceptable choice) for my bugdet (600$ rifle new or used) and 600$ scope(new and used). In the 30-06.
I will never pretend to a Super accurate rifle, but just an rifle and a scope Able to be accurate (shoot in 12" scare at 500 yards and sub 500 yards).
TC Venture and a Redfield Revolution gets you out shooting. In your budget that would be (and was) my choice. 500 is a ways out there... practice lots to save yourself some frustration during the hunt. Or check out other places to set up the bench and maybe a blind if need be.
It need to be a carabine . . .
Perhaps something lost in the translation but I am going to assume a rifle versus a short barrel in the 20 inch range.
500 yards is long but the pie plate suggestion would best be started at 100 yards and when 3 of 3 are on target, try 200 and progress accordingly.
A range finder would be an excellent addition as well as a mentor who can explain ballistics. Since reloading is not currently an option practice will be expensive so you would be wise to save your brass.
The weather warrior might be a good option given the conditions you envision.
A 500 yard rifle does not guarantee a 500 yard shooter! When you buy factory bullets it is important to realize every load is different and every change will require a restart back at 100 yards.
I missed a bear once at 500 yards and cannot recall another attempt at that distance. I used my .30-06 once in a silhouette shoot and scored 10 out of 40.
Perhaps something lost in the translation but I am going to assume a rifle versus a short barrel in the 20 inch range.
500 yards is long but the pie plate suggestion would best be started at 100 yards and when 3 of 3 are on target, try 200 and progress accordingly.
A range finder would be an excellent addition as well as a mentor who can explain ballistics. Since reloading is not currently an option practice will be expensive so you would be wise to save your brass.
The weather warrior might be a good option given the conditions you envision.
A 500 yard rifle does not guarantee a 500 yard shooter! When you buy factory bullets it is important to realize every load is different and every change will require a restart back at 100 yards.
I missed a bear once at 500 yards and cannot recall another attempt at that distance. I used my .30-06 once in a silhouette shoot and scored 10 out of 40.
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
Really, if you have a 1 MOA gun, then you'll be shooting 5 inch groups at 500 yards. A deer's vitals is about a 6 inch target, so you're good... but that's only if you send a PERFECTLY placed shot. If the SHOOTER wobbles a bit, and affects the shot by 1 MOA [which is a very minute wobble], and the margin of error sends the bullet 1 MOA in the same direction, then the bullet could be up to 10 inches off from the intended point of impact.
So I'd suggest, for the requirements listed above, you should get a 0.5 MOA gun, and then practice like crazy. If you intend to hunt deer out to 500 yards, then why not, but you'd better be able to hit a pie plate sized target 5 out of 5 times from field positions in varying wind conditions as well.
When you can do this, then you're ready to shoot at a living creature at this distance.
The 30-06 cartridge is more than capable of doing this, if the shooter is.
Any rifle including Savage [not my favorite], Tikka, Remington, Winchester, etc can be made into a gun that can do this reliably [if the shooter has the skills]. But, to get an off-the-shelf mass produced rifle and expect it to just instantly be capable of this is a bit of a noob expectation.
The reality is that you'll probably need to make your off-the-shelf rifle into a 0.5 MOA rifle by bedding the action, possibly blue-printing the action, getting an after-market barrel, etc. It'll need to be tweaked. Many people have spent thousands trying to get a rifle to be this accurate.
**In my opinion [take it for what it's worth]** the brand of rifle that is mostly likely able to do this off the shelf is Tikka. Then maybe a Browning x-bolt. There could be others, but I've found those two rifles to be crazy accurate. Meaning I get 0.6 to 0.75 MOA regulary with my Tikka and my 2 x-bolts... off the bench. I also lucked out one time and bought a used .270 in a Winchester XTR Winlite. That rifle is a steady 0.5 MOA rifle as well.
I took my elk this year at over 450 yards with my off-the-shelf browning x-bolt in 300WSM. But elk are bigger, and have a bigger vital area.
So, I do think it's possible to ethically hunt deer at 500 yards with a .30-06.
I do not think's likely for someone who shoots only a few times a year and shoots an off-the-shelf run-of-the-mill rifle to be very successful at this endevor. The low possibility of success means it's not very ethical [at least in my mind].
But if want to do it, then have at'er. Just be prepared to spend the time and the money to be able to make the shot reliably and repeatably.
Cheers.
So I'd suggest, for the requirements listed above, you should get a 0.5 MOA gun, and then practice like crazy. If you intend to hunt deer out to 500 yards, then why not, but you'd better be able to hit a pie plate sized target 5 out of 5 times from field positions in varying wind conditions as well.
When you can do this, then you're ready to shoot at a living creature at this distance.
The 30-06 cartridge is more than capable of doing this, if the shooter is.
Any rifle including Savage [not my favorite], Tikka, Remington, Winchester, etc can be made into a gun that can do this reliably [if the shooter has the skills]. But, to get an off-the-shelf mass produced rifle and expect it to just instantly be capable of this is a bit of a noob expectation.
The reality is that you'll probably need to make your off-the-shelf rifle into a 0.5 MOA rifle by bedding the action, possibly blue-printing the action, getting an after-market barrel, etc. It'll need to be tweaked. Many people have spent thousands trying to get a rifle to be this accurate.
**In my opinion [take it for what it's worth]** the brand of rifle that is mostly likely able to do this off the shelf is Tikka. Then maybe a Browning x-bolt. There could be others, but I've found those two rifles to be crazy accurate. Meaning I get 0.6 to 0.75 MOA regulary with my Tikka and my 2 x-bolts... off the bench. I also lucked out one time and bought a used .270 in a Winchester XTR Winlite. That rifle is a steady 0.5 MOA rifle as well.
I took my elk this year at over 450 yards with my off-the-shelf browning x-bolt in 300WSM. But elk are bigger, and have a bigger vital area.
So, I do think it's possible to ethically hunt deer at 500 yards with a .30-06.
I do not think's likely for someone who shoots only a few times a year and shoots an off-the-shelf run-of-the-mill rifle to be very successful at this endevor. The low possibility of success means it's not very ethical [at least in my mind].
But if want to do it, then have at'er. Just be prepared to spend the time and the money to be able to make the shot reliably and repeatably.
Cheers.
- Location
- Central Sask
From what I have saw on here.....most of the guys here preaching that Savage is "junk", have never owned one and at best they have held or looked at one in a store. There is a lot of good advice based on real life experience on this site. But there is a mountain of worthless opinions based on nothing. IMHO
I have picked up the Axis... I have fired the Axis... it's crap.... the action is clunky, the stock is ugly and poorly made of crappy material and the recoil lug is integral so you can't even swap it out with any of the other savage stocks.... You suggested the 111 but I don't see where you can get one and come out under 600 bucks as the OP suggested....
If you want a good inexpensive rifle look into the Weatherby Vanguards. Scramble around a bit and you might still find one for $350, and that comes with an accuracy guarantee. Get a V-2 for about $500, and you get a 1" guarantee.
Scopes have many quality options for under $600. I can get Leupold VX3 3.5-10 with a B&C for under six, 2.5-8 for less, or CDS for about $500. A CDS would be a great choice for going 500 yards with an -06, you would be on the infinity pin with the subtension reticle.
Drop the price down and a VX-11 3-9 with an LR reticle for about $300 is a bargain. Marry that to $350 Vanguard and you'll have some solid schitt for not a lot of money.
Scopes have many quality options for under $600. I can get Leupold VX3 3.5-10 with a B&C for under six, 2.5-8 for less, or CDS for about $500. A CDS would be a great choice for going 500 yards with an -06, you would be on the infinity pin with the subtension reticle.
Drop the price down and a VX-11 3-9 with an LR reticle for about $300 is a bargain. Marry that to $350 Vanguard and you'll have some solid schitt for not a lot of money.
- Location
- Central Sask
I never suggested the axis. I agree with you about the axis. I personally think the Axis was a bad move on Savages part because there will be thousands of people go to stores and handle that abortion and "assume" that that is what all savages are like. The one I suggested was Detatchable mag, accustock and trigger for 600.75. So 3 shiny quartes plus tax over his budget
Or losse the accustock and trigger and buy the 111 package from wolverine for 400, sell the sh!t scope and rings for 50 and put that into a set of rings then pick a decent scope.
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
I owned a used savage 111 for a short time. Picked it up in a partial trade. It didn't have the accustock nor the accutrigger. I sold it for the value I had into it, and I was glad to be rid of it. It was junk.
For the same dollar amount I owned a Parker Hale Midland rifle. Those guns are slagged on here quite a bit, but it was a very solid gun. And it shot decently too [1.3" 3 shot groups].
If I were on a tight budget and needed a rifle, my first step wouldn't be to run out and buy a savage. I'd look for a good used rifle of higher quality.
For the same dollar amount I owned a Parker Hale Midland rifle. Those guns are slagged on here quite a bit, but it was a very solid gun. And it shot decently too [1.3" 3 shot groups].
If I were on a tight budget and needed a rifle, my first step wouldn't be to run out and buy a savage. I'd look for a good used rifle of higher quality.
Fair enough... I won't make comments about the 111.... I haven't handled one... but I have never seen them at that price until you pointed it out... and no... I won't quabble over 75 cents...
WSS. $520 plus tax. comes out to about $545. I don't think you have looked much.
That being said, I can get a Vangaurd for $600 from my local guy here. I'd go that route, although I really like the way my wife's 111 in .243 shoots and handles (even if it is too short).
I shoot cheap crap compared to what most of you guys shoot. I have an ATR that I would put up against any of your $1000 rifles from the bench. But I had to cut my teeth on $50 milsurps my whole life.
I never look at WSS..... too many horror stories.... and why the hell so much for the vanguard?.... ouch!
I totally agree with you on the fact that a gun doesn't have to be expensive to shoot well.... but it usually has to be well made to stand the test of time... and inexpensive guns are usually not well made....
