Vortex's Warranty = Good | Vortex's Turrets = Not as good

Haagen_Dazs said:
Anyway, like I said, just came back from the range and confirmed my fears; the turrets track in a circle, not a square. Basically, the windage would not track the whole 10 mils in each direction unless the elevation was centered. When I cranked the elevation all the way up and turned the windage, there was little resistance and the reticle did not move. When I turned the elevation down after making the windage adjustment, the reticle moved in a diagonal, following the scope tube I imagine.
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RaptorRed said:
I am ignorant of rifle scope mechanisms for the most part but don't all scopes have a circle of adjustment opposed to a square? Being a tube and all...
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This really depends on the size of the internals vs. the tube.

In the case of a weaver tactical, RaptorRed is correct. If you run the turrets to the limits in one direction, you will not get the full range of the other axis of adjustment.

weaver3602.jpg

Weaver Super Slam


However, with a Super Sniper, you would expect to see that full range of motion at the limits because the internals are small relative to the tube and the range of the turrets is limited to keep the internals in an area of the tube where this can happen.

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Super Sniper

It sounds like the PST looks more like the Weaver internally and that it's internals are better suited to a larger tube (34 or 35mm).
 
btw, I salute you for testing your scope out thoroughly. Most people just mount them, slap on a level, zero and assume all is well.
 
blargon said:
Keep sending it back, but make them pay shipping...
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Isn't that the definition of insanity? :D

When I was doing my research for optics to carry, I looked at various Vortex product and wasn't too impressed.

Their warranty and dealer support is second to none but I didn't feel their product fit with the level of performance my customers wanted.

So, I dont offer their stuff. Hopefully, their products will improve. Their features are very innovative but if the scopes don't work, not much use.

The Razor is interesting with many good reports but for what they want for cost, there are certainly many better products at similar price points.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
The Razor was designed from the start to be a tactical scope. It's starting to look like the Viper is a just a hunting scope they stuck turrets on.

It would be nice if some of the other manufacturers got on board with where tactical scopes are going and offered those features. Sure, they have nice glass, but their feature set is worse than what Leupold was offering up until recently. Even they've gotten on board with the right features in their new Mark 8 line. Very nice scopes! I got to handle the 1.1-8 a few weeks back...
 
It's beyond me why it's so hard to find an FFP mil/mil scope in 6-24 range magnification. I'm really hoping Sightron will get on board but from what I can see, SHOT 2012 didn't show much in that regard. The Leupolds are alright, but more expensive and with unattractive reticles.

I hope my Falcon gets here soon. It just may be the answer to my problem.
 
Alot of sweeping generalizations in this thread about Vortex product... Issues come up with every brand and we don't write them off all together. We don't see too many threads about Vortex problems and for the most part they offer great products with exceptional pricing and solid warranties.

FWIW I've had no issues with my PST's and the glass is great.
 
50calshooter said:
FWIW I've had no issues with my PST's and the glass is great.
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Have you tried shooting a box with the scope? All I want to know is if others can verify that the scope is supposed to be able to track in a 19.0 MRAD box or weither this is a design flaw.


My scope was sent to the experts in the states and they put it in writing, my scope is fine. Yet I'm not satisfied and cannot get it to track in a square.

Portage059.jpg
 
I also wonder how many people have actually run the box test. That would be helpful in determining if this is a problem with this individual scope or if its a design flaw.
 
Well from center reticle, track 9.5 mils up and 9.5 mils left and let me know if the reticle moves accordingly. My scope is fine for short range shots too but it bothers me that it feels like it's tracking on the outside but doesn't move on the inside.
 
50calshooter said:
Yeah I've never done a box test,

All I know is the scope functions good for me, it holds zero and the elevation/windage work for my shooting, which is from 100- 300 yards

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, please excuse my ignorance.
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Then you don't know that it will work fine in all of the situations you may use it in. If your scope exhibits the same thing, then one day you may try to adjust for a shot and miss because the scope did not track to where it was supposed to (or you thought it was supposed to).

If you haven't box tested it, then you don't know that it works great, you don't even know if the clicks are true. I've seen higher end scope get returned because of that. Even my USO SN3 needed to be sent back for various issues. If you haven't tested it, then you are only assuming that it works great. I wouldn't do that even with a PR, a USO, S&B or the like...
 
50calshooter said:
Alot of sweeping generalizations in this thread about Vortex product... Issues come up with every brand and we don't write them off all together. We don't see too many threads about Vortex problems and for the most part they offer great products with exceptional pricing and solid warranties.

FWIW I've had no issues with my PST's and the glass is great.
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You are absolutely right and my post was not to say the Vortex shouldn't be considered. Quite the contrary, they offer products that are pretty unique in their price point.

However, for my money, they lack in the areas I consider most important for a scope. And so do my customers....

Different strokes for different folks.

If you want to see what your scope can really do, have a read and do the test.

http://www.mysticprecision.com/wp/1141/setting-up-your-scope-for-lr-shooting/

As was said, there are some pretty fancy brands with big price tags that fail these type of tests.

Conversely, I have had dirt cheap China Specials that passed with flying colours (they usually failed in other areas but until you test, you have no idea what you have on your rifle)

I hear quite a few negs on Philipino manf. Like all things, what did the scope brand SPEC in their scope. The Philipines factory I am thinking of was made by NIKON with their newest tech. Main market - binos and cameras.

This factory had the newest and bestest when it came online.

Same with a variety of Chinese factories. Some are making the BEST lense coatings for industrial optics application.

Yes, there is little doubt that junk does come from these countries but take apart any computer or smart phone and see where the highest tech parts are made these days.

ALL of our highest tech consumer products are now produced in some of the more undeveloped countries.....

Factories dont care where they are. Neither do robots and who leads the world in industrial robotics?

Jerry
 
I 've been following this thread keenly have a question or two. The wealth of knowledge is astounding on this board. I am fairly new and am eager to learn more, as I can now see theres more to it than just bolting on some glass. Can someone please tell me what a box test is?? and how to do it properly, and what is the difference between the circle tracking verses the tube tracking ( I think thats what I mean ) Thanks


cheers

R/W
 
d:h: Some people like Vortex, others don't. Me? I like my Vortex products. Two Viper scopes (3.5-10X50 and 3-9X40) and my cheap Crossfire binos. I found the Viper scopes to be better then the other glass I was considering and far less expensive. For me, price point was a big factor. The binos have allowed me to count points no problem on the game I've looked at and needed to identify. Will I buy Vortex again? Yes, because I like their product. I haven't found it to be more problematic for repairs then other manufacturers (just my experience).
The comparisons and comments remind me of people arguing which truck manufacturer.
 
kombayotch said:
Then you don't know that it will work fine in all of the situations you may use it in. If your scope exhibits the same thing, then one day you may try to adjust for a shot and miss because the scope did not track to where it was supposed to (or you thought it was supposed to).

If you haven't box tested it, then you don't know that it works great, you don't even know if the clicks are true. I've seen higher end scope get returned because of that. Even my USO SN3 needed to be sent back for various issues. If you haven't tested it, then you are only assuming that it works great. I wouldn't do that even with a PR, a USO, S&B or the like...
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I use my rifle for target shooting, not war. Second, when I need to make an adjustment I roughly calculate where I need to move and I turn the dials based on said calculations (repeat if necessary) I don't look through my scope while I'm turning the dial.. Why would I? As long as the bullet hole changes when I turn my dial, I'm happy. Sure, if I bought a $3000 scope and it didn't do that then maby I'd be pissed, I didn't though, I spent 900 bucks!

Why all the over thinking... weird, again excuse my ignorance but I'm just a redneck who puts holes through paper.
 
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50calshooter said:
As long as the bullet hole changes when I turn my dial, I'm happy.
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That's the thing, when the elevation is dialed way up or way down, the windage adjustments still 'click' but the reticle does not move. This is a serious problem and unless you actually map out exactly what your scope adjustments max out at, you will not be able to be sure if your point of aim is changing with the 'clicks'.




Can someone please tell me what a box test is??
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Basically, your turrets track up and down (elevation) and left and right (windage). It's 2-dimensional so not too different that thinking of it as an Etch-a-Sketch:

FKWXGZTFXV3AFOL.MEDIUM.jpg




In my case, Vortex claims the scope is capable of 19.0 MRAD of adjustment in both windage and elevation (9.5 MRAD up/down/left/right when the reticle is centered). This is true if tracking in a 'plus sign' (+). I can actually get almost 10.0 MRAD in each direction. The problem is that when I have the elevation all the way to the top, there is no windage adjustment available.

A good scope can track in a square (or box) which means that no matter where the elevation is, you will always have the full 19.0 MRAD of windage to use.
 
Haagen_Dazs said:
At least I'm being honest. I sure as hell wish I could have had the same intel when I bought mine. I may as well keep it, I wont be needing all the elevation anyway so the problem kinda solves itself.
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my understanding is that vortex unlike some other scope manufacturers allow the scopes elevation to go to its absolute max up /down and not have a built in stop. what this means is that the scope should not have the full 19 to 20 mil of elevation and should have been limited to the "zone" 16mil- 17mil or whatever that it functions in both planes fully. the reason to my understanding is that vortex assumed that most would rather the extra elevation and would except the “vinetting” as I believe it is called.
 
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