Think Our Black Rifle Laws Suck? The Full-Auto Dream

.30/06 FTW said:
Can someone explain this to me? How can you get a new AR15 lower if it must be manufactured before 1986? (From what I understand the lower is considered the firearm is it not?)
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There are still FA M16s from <1986, which is why they fetch between $18,000-$20,000 (collectors mainly). The auto-sear is the regulated part, so you can source a pre-1986 auto-sear for a new FA lower. The sear itself will run you between $8,000-$10,000, though - and then you still have to go through the 3-10 month process to have it registered for a specific firearm.

twig_40 said:
It's all BS, if we have to jump through all the hoops to be allowed to own firearms, there should be NO restrictions. I should be able to own what I want.

Good summary. Was very interesting to see how it does work. Instead of gossip. I knew about the tax, but not the other regulations.
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Just for a comparison, imagine having to go through the whole process of applying for an RPAL, obtaining approval from your local LE and $200 - each time you want to buy a new Norc M4... :eek:

I'm not trying to suggest that obtaining an RPAL doesn't entail it's own difficulties, but renewals are fairly seamless - and generally let you buy whatever firearms you want for a period of 5 years.
 
yeah.. the 200$ stamp per SBR is pretty stupid... considering you can get any length pistol, but its not bad considering the mark up we pay in canada for everything gun related... if we can even get it... damn you 100$ limit

you also cannot take your full autos into the bush, range only and so on...

sounds familiar,


here are some other results of insane US gun laws, of course all to make us all safer... right?
californialegalAR-153.jpg


think changing mags every 5 rounds is bad?
[youtube]?feature=player_embedded&v=w18-L8pqHXY#![/youtube]

its good to point out that even in the US there is still a ways to go
 
Personally I don't want full auto guns.

I prefer full capacity mags, no ATT and silencer. I don't know why silencers are illegal. A silencer is a tool and only help reduce noise for neighborhood or other shooters. A silencer is good for everyones even anti.....
 
GLOCK_PERFECTION said:
Personally I don't want full auto guns.

I prefer full capacity mags, no ATT and silencer. I don't know why silencers are illegal. A silencer is a tool and only help reduce noise for neighborhood or other shooters. A silencer is good for everyones even anti.....
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Its a health and safety concern.

Funny that your car needs a muffler by law but your gun can't have one.
 
blaxsun said:
There are still FA M16s from <1986, which is why they fetch between $18,000-$20,000 (collectors mainly). The auto-sear is the regulated part, so you can source a pre-1986 auto-sear for a new FA lower. The sear itself will run you between $8,000-$10,000, though - and then you still have to go through the 3-10 month process to have it registered for a specific firearm.
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There are two different types of transferable M16s. The first are those with the lower receiver drilled for a conventional auto sear, in which case the receiver is the NFA item. In the second case, the NFA item is a device, such as a drop-in auto sear or lightning link, that fits into a standard AR-15 receiver to enable automatic fire without drilling it for an M16 auto sear.

As I understand it, an acutal M16 auto sear is not in itself a controlled part, but possession of one (and/or M16 fire control parts) along with an AR-15 could be construed as constructive possession of an unregistered machine gun.
 
c0ntract said:
My priority list is hi cap mags
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I think you meant standard capacity mags. 30 rounds is the standard capacity for most black rifles.

Before we can change the minds of the politicians and the public at large, us gunnuts need to all get on the same page and use the correct language first.
 
tjhaile said:
There are two different types of transferable M16s. The first are those with the lower receiver drilled for a conventional auto sear, in which case the receiver is the NFA item. In the second case, the NFA item is a device, such as a drop-in auto sear or lightning link, that fits into a standard AR-15 receiver to enable automatic fire without drilling it for an M16 auto sear.

As I understand it, an acutal M16 auto sear is not in itself a controlled part, but possession of one (and/or M16 fire control parts) along with an AR-15 could be construed as constructive possession of an unregistered machine gun.
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Thanks for the clarification and additional information!
 
Full auto is fun but I cannot afford to shoot ammo that way...all I want is full cap mags, not ATT BS and a can!!!
 
The Canadian Full-Auto Dream

Having outlined what's really entailed in possessing full-autos in the US, let's look at how this would apply here in Canada (if the Canadian Government every allowed such).

First and foremost, as in the US, the purchase of new full-auto weapons would be restricted to military and LE only (full-auto firearms have not been commercially available in the US since 1986). This includes imports. What this essentially leaves is the pool of existing FA firearms in civilian hands in Canada.

But before we get ahead of ourselves, let's address two core problems which need to be addressed first: ATTs to transport FA firearms have been denied since 2003, and there are genuine issues with getting commercial range approval (since military and LE ranges will continue to be off-limits).

Assuming these hurdles can be overcome, let's start looking at the logistics. Unlike the US, there are going to be far fewer FA firearms in civilian hands in Canada - and no drop-in auto-sears to convert newer SA AR15 lowers. This means that we're predominantly going to see much older FA firearms in general, and very few FA AR15 lowers - since they'll be highly sought after to match with a state-of-the-art upper.

And once they become eligible to shoot again, the inherent value of FA firearms is going to drastically increase. This will almost certainly lead to many FA firearms being grandfathered and never made available on the open market. A prohibited PAL classification that vastly expands the number of eligible buyers will only see prices grow exponentially and exacerbate the problem.

Then there are the real issues of wear and tear on these firearms, and the challenges required to replace parts so that they remain operational.

At the end of the day, even with all the hurdles - Canadian firearms owners would still find themselves in the same (or perhaps even a more adverse) scenario as their American neighbours: that full-auto is going to be limited to the relative few that either already possess them, or the ones that have the financial resources required to obtain them.
 
FishDoc said:
The bottom line, despite the expenses, headaches and paperwork, YOU HAVE THE FUKIN CHOICE I just...want...the freedom to have that choice
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Yeah, but that's where the illusion is. 10/50 states (and DC) prohibit full-auto.

California ... 37.5 million ; Delaware ... 0.9 million ; Hawaii ... 1.3 million ; Illinois ... 12.8 million ; Iowa ... 3.0 million ; Massachusetts ... 6.5 million ; Minnesota ... 5.3 million ; New York ... 19.4 million ; Rhode Island ... 1.0 million ; Washington ... 6.8 million ; DC ... 0.6 million

The population of the US is 311.5 million. So that means 95.1 million (or 30.5%) Americans don't have a choice, either. And I'm not sure it's really much of a choice if you can't exercise it...

As I've been harping for months now, we'd be further ahead with the integration/removal of ATTs such that we could take our restricteds anywhere. Increasing magazine capacity and allowing the use of suppressors is fine, but I think the freedom and flexibility of not being shackled to the CFOs is a far loftier and much more rewarding goal.
 
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