Think Our Black Rifle Laws Suck? The Full-Auto Dream

Conte said:
I don't mind registration and ATTs. The mag cap is my biggest beef.
Honestly, I'd be willing to get a separate registration and ATT just for a high cap mag, or silencer, if it meant I could own one.

My gut tells me if we were willing to volunteer to such terms we might just have a chance at getting such things.
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I agree. Great post
 
tjhaile said:
There are two different types of transferable M16s. The first are those with the lower receiver drilled for a conventional auto sear, in which case the receiver is the NFA item. In the second case, the NFA item is a device, such as a drop-in auto sear or lightning link, that fits into a standard AR-15 receiver to enable automatic fire without drilling it for an M16 auto sear.

As I understand it, an acutal M16 auto sear is not in itself a controlled part, but possession of one (and/or M16 fire control parts) along with an AR-15 could be construed as constructive possession of an unregistered machine gun.
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Yes, that is all correct.
 
GLOCK_PERFECTION said:
Personally I don't want full auto guns.

I prefer full capacity mags, no ATT and silencer. I don't know why silencers are illegal. A silencer is a tool and only help reduce noise for neighborhood or other shooters. A silencer is good for everyones even anti.....
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Yup. Even that God forsaken land called the United Kingdom has sound suppressors readily available.
 
In some Euro countries, suppressors can be used. France, and the Scandinavian countries being a few.

One of the biggest complaints we have locally is neighbours complaining about the noise. Geese, I wonder how we could resolve that?

Jerry
 
mtallman said:
For me, the biggest factor is that you have the option to pursue whatever you want. Live in a state with more restrictive laws? You have the option to move to a state with different laws/views.

Even if there are new laws implemented at the federal level it is unlikely that they will be sweeping prohibitions. If certain guns/issues are important to you, you can always move to a state that will allow you to pursue what matters to you.

In Canada, the political landscape means that more laws tend to be uniform across the country. One election could see the end of firearms ownership (or changes in other issues) across the board, regardless of where you choose to live.
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I agree. It's always irritated me that the bulk of the laws one is forced to live under in Canada are Federal, so there is nowhere to go to escape the creeping socialism.
 
Mystic Precision said:
In some Euro countries, suppressors can be used. France, and the Scandinavian countries being a few.

One of the biggest complaints we have locally is neighbours complaining about the noise. Geese, I wonder how we could resolve that?

Jerry
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Well there's more than one solution. The solution they want is a complete shutdown. Those people complain long enough and it seems we always eventually lose :(, it's those same people that don't want us to have suppressors cause it's scary, and we will all become ninja assassins the moment we touch one.
 
The difference is that in 80% of the united states some or most of those things are permitted albeit to those who are able to jump through the hoops and pony up the cash.

The difference is that they don't ban firearms for being from a particular family or by name for the of it.
If you want. Barrett 50, AK47, or an HK G3 you can actually go out and purchase one.

I go to a couple of machinegun shoots south of the border and most of the people there do have them registered in a trust.
They also recoup some of their money by allowing people to fire the weapons for a nominal fee.
There are usually people lined up to try out most of the hardware.

The pricing structure is somewhere along the lines of $15 for a 30 rounder of 5.56 or 7.62 x 39 $50 for a 100 rounds of 5.56 or 7.62 x 39.
$25 for 30 rounds of 7.62 x 51 or $80 for 100 rounds of 7.62 x 51
$200 for 100 rounds of 50 BMG.

The guy I spoke to gets his ammo for roughly $0.10 a round for .5.56 $0.15 for 7.62 x 51 and $1.34 per round for .50 BMG.
The prices he quoted me were when he purchases by the palette.
 
thump_rrr said:
The difference is that in 80% of the united states some or most of those things are permitted albeit to those who are able to jump through the hoops and pony up the cash.

The difference is that they don't ban firearms for being from a particular family or by name for the of it.
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Actually, it's closer to 1/3 (just over 70%). And from 1994-2004, they actually did ban firearms specifically by both name and features. We'll find out in a few short months whether a new AWB will be a reality again or not.
 
Waynetheman said:
What's the deal with drop in auto sears for glocks?
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My understanding is that back in 1986 when the law was being proposed, a FEW companies looked closely at the regulations, and noticed that the "full auto" item that needed to be created, didn't need to be a completed receiver. Actually it didn't need to ever become a receiver. They looked closer, thinking "ah, well a finished sear then"...

...NOPE!

In fact...they didn't need to have the PART finished...so several of these companies simply got some small chunks of good steel and stamped a registration number on them, to be milled/treated/finished years or even decades later.

My guess is once the Glocks became popular people noticed the G18 being automatic and kept hounding the mfg's about buying some sears, which they then carved out of the "evil serial numbered blocks of steel"!
 
Transferable MGs in the US cost alot because the number of guns was limited but not the number of gun owners. The advantage of this for gun owners is that although they are expensive to buy, the prices keep going up with demand.
In Canada we limited the number of guns and owners. The result is that the value of the guns declines and gun owners loose. I bet that most Americans with $20k MGs take much better care of them (security wise) than Canadians with 12(2) take of their MGs even with safe storage laws.
 
Great post. I often find myself comparing NZ's laws to Canada's and the US.

A few differences with us:

Suppressors are totally unrestricted. Probably over half of .22lr's in NZ have a can

There is no minimum length required for a barrel - you can have it as short as you want as long as the complete length of the firearm is over 762mm (rules out some bull pups)

There are no firearm types yet restricted or prohibited by name (apart from some pre charged air rifles)

The closest thing to the "Restricted" system would be "E category" over here. This is meant to keep a handle on the trade and ownership "Military style semi automatics". This is basically a rifle or shotgun that has a folding stock, bayo lug, standard capacity mag etc. Note that you can own any semi auto firearm on a standard firearms license that is absent of features that define an MSSA. I own two AR's that are not MSSA's. MSSA's must be registered to their owner and you need a permit to procure to buy one. It also requires an E endorsement on your FAL and a stronger gun safe. Typically one would get their E endorsement by providing evidence of competing in in service rifle or 3 gun. They are not restricted to range use only. Yet anyway. The police and many fudds frown on their use for hunting, but it is slowly becoming more accepted as more AR's come into the country.

If you can get a collectors license, it is relatively cheap and easy to get your hands on full autos (full auto AK's for less than a grand for example). I've seen H&K MP5's sold for around $10K. Last time I looked they were ridiculously expensive state side. The big suck is it is illegal to even discharge a full auto firearm. You can take them to gun shows and such but you will never legally fire them. I've heard that a lot of guys do anyway. You can own basically anything on a "C" category license, within reason. So I guess it is similar to prohibited class, except you can import, transport and sell them.

No country seems to have perfect gun laws. You always seem to want what you can't have. You guys seem to want AK's really bad, while I could go out and buy an AK on a whim, but I would rather have a CZ58, which are rare as rocking horse sh!t here. I would love to be able to buy a lot of the mil surp rifles you get but we will never see many of them here in any great numbers. You guys have access to a lot of guns that we will never get to shoot. I guess I can be content with my unrestricted AR's and suppressors.
 
Thanks blaxson! All I really want is a snub nose that I can keep on my person and legally be allowed to defend myself without going bankrupt and spending years in jail...

But your right. We don't have it as bad as we think sometimes. But we have to continue to fight forward, or we will go way backwards. This ship has no neutral
 
Shooting Centre said:
I bet that most Americans with $20k MGs take much better care of them (security wise) than Canadians with 12(2) take of their MGs even with safe storage laws.
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Values aside, the American MG is a fun toy while the Canadian MG is a safe queen. The latter have 0 value as a firearm in my opinion. Nice piece of antique, but meaningless if you can't shoot it.
 
Pretty much spot on. A few fine points;

-As said above, a FA weapon can have any length of barrel without paying another tax. Also, a permanently attached suppressor doesn't require an additional tax. For example, a Sterling with an integral suppressor requires only one tax and $200 fee.

-You don't need to involve a class III dealer for SBR, SBS or suppressor if you make the item yourself. For example, to make an AR-15 SBR you jump through the hoops you outlined (minus the class III dealer), get approval, mark the lower receiver, then you can legally posses a short barreled upper.

-You can get around using a class III dealer for machine gun transfers IF you have a Curio and Relic license, and, if the gun is a C&R. An example of a C&R weapon would be a MP-40 or original Thompson.
 
CharliePC said:
Pretty much spot on. A few fine points;

-As said above, a FA weapon can have any length of barrel without paying another tax. Also, a permanently attached suppressor doesn't require an additional tax. For example, a Sterling with an integral suppressor requires only one tax and $200 fee.

-You don't need to involve a class III dealer for SBR, SBS or suppressor if you make the item yourself. For example, to make an AR-15 SBR you jump through the hoops you outlined (minus the class III dealer), get approval, mark the lower receiver, then you can legally posses a short barreled upper.
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Appreciate the additional information. So the $200 fee only applies if the suppressor is a separate (detachable) device then? Also, was just curious what's involved in 'marking' the lower receiver for an SBR conversion?
 
blaxsun said:
Appreciate the additional information. So the $200 fee only applies if the suppressor is a separate (detachable) device then?
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For machine guns, yes. Now that you bring this up, there is a part of this that I'm unsure of. I don't know if the same applies to SBRs.

Also, was just curious what's involved in 'marking' the lower receiver for an SBR conversion?
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The registered receiver (AR-15= lower, FAL=upper) must have engraved the name of the manufacturer and their city and state. This also applies to individuals, trusts and corporations. The letters must be at least 1/16" tall and .003" deep. Names and locations can be abbreviated.

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