Range Report - Daniel Defense V5 & Norinco M4

Ganderite

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It was raining today. Good news is that meant range was not crowded. No waiting for a bench. We solved the wet target issue:

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I added a 223 target rifle to the mix as a control test of ammo. If a rifle groups 2", maybe the ammo is only capable of 1.5", at best?? The target rifle has a good chamber, barrel and trigger, so indicates how the ammo performs.

The ammo was either factory (IVI ball, MFS 55 FMJ, Norinco 55 FMJ) or handloads. The handloads were all once fired IVI cases and thrown charges of Varget powder, with 3 different powder charges per bullet (24.5gr, 25.0 gr & 25.5gr). The bullets tested were:

55 FMJ
55 Ballistic Tip
62 FMJ
68 Hornady HP Match (1/2 gr less powder)

About 240 rounds were fired in 5-shot groups.

I used my CQB ammo to get each rifle on paper and zero it to shoot about an inch above the black patch used as an aiming mark.

Each rifle was topped with a 20X target scope and rested for maximum accuracy.

The rifles are a brand new Danial Defense V5 (16" brl) with about 200 rounds through it. My Norinco M4 (12.5"brl) is a year old and has about 2,000 rounds. The Norc has a floated barrel (like the DD) and I have added a Rock River trigger.

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The test ran smoothly. There was only one misfire. The primer was in backwards. The brass was all sized with a new Lyman sizer and this brass fit the tight chamber in the DD ok, although some were seated all the way only when the bolt slammed closed.

I am posting this within minutes of returning home. It will take a couple of hours to tabulate the results.

My friend Raf was the spotter. he recorded on a note pad where each group was in relation to the aiming mark and noted what rifle/ammo shot the group. He and I both agreed that the 68match bullets shot noticeably better in all the rifles. I think that is important to note. The rifles are good enough to tell the difference between match bullets and military FMJ. He thinks the Norc shot slightly better than the DD. I thought the DD shot a bit better.

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I am waiting for the targets to dry out, then I will measure and label them, and then organize them for some comparison pictures. I will add them to this post, later tonight.
 
OK, I have labeled and measured all the groups. Next step will be to cut them out and mount them in useful manner.

In the mean time, here is the raw data.

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This is not a proper comparison of the two rifles. To do that i would want to shoot 10 shot groups and repeat the test three times. I used to do that kind of thing for a living and have no desire to do it again. It is tedious and boring. Even when you own the guns involved.

This is not a valid comparison of Daniel Defense vs. Norinco. To do that I would want to test at least 5 samples of each. Not going to do that, either.

So what did I learn?

I was reminded how nice the Rock River trigger is compared to a stock AR15 trigger. The results with the DD would have been slightly better with a better trigger. I was well supported with a 20X target scope, so tell I was breaking good shots. Some of the flyers were startling to see. i am sure they were the ammo, not the rifles.

Prior to today, I had only shot the 62 gr FMJ (no steel penetrator) in the Norc as part of an initial ammo test, and they shot very poorly. They shot poorly in the Norc today. But they did very well in the bolt gun and in the DD. In fact, if I want to make cheap ammo for the DD that shoots well, I would use these 62 FMJ.

The tight chamber in the DD was not a problem. It digested everything smoothly.

The Norc is more violent to shoot. It could use a smaller gas port. I use this for CQB, so it works to my advantage. I can use much milder ammo (less recoil) and it still cycles the action.

I will add more data in about an hour.
 
Interesting… is that really a 0.86 group from the Norc with the 68 gr Hornady Match? It doesn’t seem to quite fit in the middle there... it appears to be the best group out of the ARs.

Also, is the trigger on the DD a stock mil spec, where as the Norc trigger is a 2 stage RRA?

On a cursory inspection, I would say it is a toss up…
 
Yes, it really was a 0.86" group, but that is just proof that one 5 shot group is not enough to establish a group size. Several 5 shot groups mean something. One 10 shot group also means something.

The best I can conclude is that these guns can group just under 2 minutes with this ammo.
 
For those of you who want to see the actual groups, here they are. One bullet per page. Three loads in each of three rifles.

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My conclusions:

Both rifles shoot well. Don't see much difference, other than stock trigger vs Rock River. That difference will be addressed.

As for ammo, I was surprised how well the IVI shot and how poorly the Norinco ammo did. However, the Norico ammo is from cases marked $95. (1600 rounds) I am guessing it has been in the bunker for about 20 years or more.

For 300 yard accuracy, the 68 Hornady Match bullet rocks.

For short range accuracy, the 55 Nosler Ballistic Tip is cheaper.

For CQB and plinking, the 55 and 62 FMJ works well. The 62 does not work well in the Norc M4, but the DD loves it.

Thank you to Chris who offered to open the range for me and RO so we could do this test on a quiet day.
 
Great review. I'd like to see how the DD stacks up if it had a better trigger? Or if the Norc had a stock mil-spec trigger. Might be a more fair comparison.
 
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