Another what if question.........

[Cleftwynd]

was it Annie that you saw pulling the trigger on the moose?

No, it was actually my uncle, he shot every moose with a 410. I myself have shot deer with 22LR and 22Mag. I have shoot moose with the ruger 44 carbine. Not a single animal suffered. I once lost an injured moose to the 7mm08, and once placed a shot poorly on a deer with a 308 that required a quick run and a second shot to end it's misery.

To this day the moose that got away both puzzles me, and bothers me. I have never figured out what went wrong, and THAT bothers me.... I can not fix or correct something when I don't know the cause.

Most of my family, Dad, uncles, grandparents, shot moose and deer for meat, we all still do. But many moons ago they used whatever was "behind the door", wether it be an old 303, a 410, or a Cooey ranger single shot 22, went out and got meat for the winter. They weren't hunting for sport, it was survival. We come from a place were your closest neighbor was many miles away, through thick bush in the northern canadian shield. No one could afford ammo let alone a new "gun". When I was young I was given a single 22 shell at a time to go hunt grouse or rabbits. Life was, and still is to some extent, more of a pioneers life. Something I am proud of.

I guess it really doesn't matter what anyone else believes, but it still bugs me none the less when someone calls me a liar, no matter how they put it....

 

[Max Owner]

Why bother? Its the internet and we are all experts.

Don't let it bother you.

 

[crazydave]

Except that it is, imo, incorrect. The .270 WSM offers no practical advantage over the .270 Winchester.

Sorry to burst your bubble, i have hunted with both the 270 and the 270 wsm A LOT, also have fired both over a chrony, the wsm gives you on average 150 fps more speed with the same bullet weight.

Doesn't tell you much in the hunting world till you pull off the same hit at 300+ yds with the same shot placement, the difference it hitting power can be seen then.

 

[two-dogs]

No, it was actually my uncle, he shot every moose with a 410. I myself have shot deer with 22LR and 22Mag. I have shoot moose with the ruger 44 carbine. Not a single animal suffered. I once lost an injured moose to the 7mm08, and once placed a shot poorly on a deer with a 308 that required a quick run and a second shot to end it's misery.

To this day the moose that got away both puzzles me, and bothers me. I have never figured out what went wrong, and THAT bothers me.... I can not fix or correct something when I don't know the cause.

Most of my family, Dad, uncles, grandparents, shot moose and deer for meat, we all still do. But many moons ago they used whatever was "behind the door", wether it be an old 303, a 410, or a Cooey ranger single shot 22, went out and got meat for the winter. They weren't hunting for sport, it was survival. We come from a place were your closest neighbor was many miles away, through thick bush in the northern canadian shield. No one could afford ammo let alone a new "gun". When I was young I was given a single 22 shell at a time to go hunt grouse or rabbits. Life was, and still is to some extent, more of a pioneers life. Something I am proud of.

I guess it really doesn't matter what anyone else believes, but it still bugs me none the less when someone calls me a liar, no matter how they put it....

whoe horsey, my friend, not calling liar or anything! After reading your posts, I am getting the wilderness way of life feeling back in my mind and liking it! I hear ya. Where do you dudes aim and hit and at what yardage for those kills with the light guns? 410 slugs and 22's etc? Just wondering and it is interesting to know about! Not that I would do it, though! I had an uncle back in Sask when I still lived there, back in the '50's that brought home meat for us every year with his Savage 99 in 250-3000. Venison for sure and the odd Elk! Not to worry, were cool, man!

 

[1899]

Please explain.

The .300 WSM is usually compared to the .300 WM, the 7mm WSM is usually compared to the 7mm RM while the .270 WSM is compared to the .270 Win.

Since most folks these days are into the Barnes TSX/TTSX, take a look.


Top loads:
.270 Win
130gr TTSX - 59.5gr RL19 giving 3211fps
140gr TTSX - 56.5gr IMR4350 giving 3050fps
150gr TSX - 60.5gr RL22 giving 3000fps

.270 WSM
130gr TTSX - 74.0gr MagPro giving 3260fps
140gr TSX - 70.5gr MagPro giving 3125fps
150gr TSX - 69.0gr Magnum giving 3030fps

So on average the WSM burns an extra 22% of powder for 30 - 75fps increase in velocity. Even if it gave an extra 100-150fps, so what? A 100fps advantage at the muzzle with 130gr bullets will give you less than 100 ft-lbs energy difference at 500 yards.

The .270 Win is a very balanced cartridge and I stand by my view that the WSM gives no practical advantage. In fact the WSM brings lots of negatives to the table. It burns much, much more powder. With the above noted 130gr loads the WSM uses 24% more powder, has 20.5% more recoil and gives 1.5% more velocity - which isn't worth anything. Brass costs more, is harder to find. Rifles in th WSM generally carry 2 or 3 in the magazine vs 4 or 5 for the regular .270 Win.

I can't see any upside at all to the WSM. If I wanted a hotter .270, I'd get a .270 Wby and call Why Not? who would give me his 130gr Partition at 3500fps load.

 

[1899]

Sorry to burst your bubble, i have hunted with both the 270 and the 270 wsm A LOT, also have fired both over a chrony, the wsm gives you on average 150 fps more speed with the same bullet weight.

Doesn't tell you much in the hunting world till you pull off the same hit at 300+ yds with the same shot placement, the difference it hitting power can be seen then.

You are kidding, right? Even if it got an extra 150 fps that would equate to less than 200ft-lbs of energy difference at 300 yards, and you are telling me that is a difference you can see? Sure, you can call it an advantage on paper, but like I said - no practical advantage.

 

[crazydave]

Figures on paper don't impress me much, and reloading spec's can change between manuals night and day. In the real world the 270 wsm usually offers a honest 150 fps difference, and as stated the difference can be seen.

Is it a huge difference, no it isn't. But it is a slight improvement over the origonal chambering it was designed after.

 

[crazydave]

You are kidding, right? Even if it got an extra 150 fps that would equate to less than 200ft-lbs of energy difference at 300 yards, and you are telling me that is a difference you can see? Sure, you can call it an advantage on paper, but like I said - no practical advantage.

When using ballistic silver tips on deer at 300 yds the difference can be seen, the largest exit with a normal 270 wasa hair under 2", ithe the wsm i could stick my hand in the hole.

instead of preaching from behind a screen why not get both and try them exstensivly like i did, or just keep preaching

 

[Cleftwynd]

How is 150 FPS more at the muzzle going to equate to making an exit hole 400% larger at 300 yards? I am not seeing the whole picture. Plus it would take many many comaprisions to be conclusive, things like bone, skin thickness, deer size, etc... will change the exit wound that much with the same round from the same rifle with every different animal shot.



two-dogs, my apologies, I grew up in a different world than most people here. I am also not used to people not taking my word as fact... unless it is an opinion of mine, I am very used to that being being flushed, I am married after all. lol

The deer with the 22 are head shots, the moose with 410 has mostly been boiler room, but I know at least one bull was taken between the peepers. I was 9 when I shot my first deer, with a 22, while hunting for grouse behind my grandmas place. First I got my ass kicked for shootiing a deer out of season and with a 22, and without permission. Then I got congratulated for getting my first deer. One shot near the ear with a 22 LR from a Cooey Ranger that was my grandmothers since she was 16. That would make the gun new in 1921 and it has shot many many grouse, rabbits and deer by everyone from my grandparents, great uncles, uncles, my father and me.
Great Uncle Joe had a long octagon 25-35 (which is now mine) but he lived too far away for borrowing, so everyone used what they had back then, late 70's on things changed around home, civilization found us....lol.

 

[1899]

OK...the alleged 150 fps difference at the muzzle is significant. Lol...

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[crazydave]

The only way to explain it that i can figure for the exit holes is that the difference in speed at 300 is right at the failing point of the ballistic silvertip, the 270 win is under the speed it fails the wsm over.

Between those 2 chamberings i have shot 19 deer, 8 with the wsm. all deer shot with the wsm have had considerably larger exits, closest deer was shot at 168 yds measured with a rangefinder, furthest was 417 yds.

I do however agree the difference is not going to be noticed by the animal, i have moved on from both chamberings to the 7mm rem mag, for the ability to shoot heavier bullets

 

[1899]

I do however agree the difference is not going to be noticed by the animal, i have moved on from both chamberings to the 7mm rem mag, for the ability to shoot heavier bullets

So then we agree after all. On two points, as I too have gone back to the 7mm RM.

 

[crazydave]

So then we agree after all. On two points, as I too have gone back to the 7mm RM.

The smaller bullets coming apart would not have worked as well on my elk this year, plus ammo here for the 7mm is the same price as 30-06 ammo at most places.

 

[1899]

You really need to handload for the 7mm RM - the factory loads are neutered.

 

[crazydave]

Don't tell that to the bull i shot this year lol, 2 pass throughs and a third stuck just under the hide at about 275 yds

 

[dead meat]

How about neither ??

My opinion as well.

 

[joe-nwt]

.....




The .270 Win is a very balanced cartridge and I stand by my view that the WSM gives no practical advantage. In fact the WSM brings lots of negatives to the table. It burns much, much more powder. With the above noted 130gr loads the WSM uses 24% more powder, has 20.5% more recoil and gives 1.5% more velocity - which isn't worth anything. Brass costs more, is harder to find. Rifles in th WSM generally carry 2 or 3 in the magazine vs 4 or 5 for the regular .270 Win.

.

I get a kick how some people will really dig deep to berate a cartridge they have decided they don't like. From your posts, it appears your #1 reason for disliking the 270WSM is because it burns 4¢ more powder than the 270W?

And 4 or 5 rounds vrs, 2 or 3 is a big issue for hunting? How often do you shoot 4 or 5 rounds at the same animal? Maybe you need to spend more time with those 400yrd milk jugs......

 

[MaxKW]

My lighter weight "walking" rifle is a 300WSM, I use it because I have confidence in it and like the rifle, for a 1 gun arsenal I would pick my 375H&H because thats my preference.

The faster cartridges will will shoot a bit flatter and buck the wind a bit better but 2 cartridges within the same "performance window" will have very similar effects after hitting the animal, to say 100fps will make a noticable difference on game is strictly an opinion, the conditions are never reproducable, until the technology is here that lets you shoot a game animal then rewind and take the same shot with a different rifle all the "noticeable effect on game" talk will be strictly opinion.

 

[1899]

I get a kick how some people will really dig deep to berate a cartridge they have decided they don't like. From your posts, it appears your #1 reason for disliking the 270WSM is because it burns 4¢ more powder than the 270W?

And 4 or 5 rounds vrs, 2 or 3 is a big issue for hunting? How often do you shoot 4 or 5 rounds at the same animal? Maybe you need to spend more time with those 400yrd milk jugs......

I like the way you keep changing things and building up nice straw men to beat down. I said simply -

The .270 WSM offers no practical advantage over the .270 Winchester.

That is the #1 reason I have no interest in the .270 WSM. People asked me to explain the above quote and I did. Good for you if you believe a 30, 50, 75 or 100fps faster muzzle velocity makes for a "practical advantage". But since you have enough experience to know that I am right, you simply fabricate some other point to argue.

 

[joe-nwt]

I'm not arguing anything. Truth be known, I am not a big fan of any 270, be it WSM or otherwise. I am a big fan of having a rifle and cartridge combo that I am comfortable with and confidence that it can get the job done. It matters not if it is 100fps slower or faster, nor whether it burns 4¢ more or less powder. And I've rarely shot more than 1 round at big game, and never more than 2.

But a man with your experience already knows it's the shooter and the rifle, not a few grains of powder or bullet weight when it comes to most hunting situations, right?