9mm big enough?

jeff270 said:
I read an article by Evan Marshall in witch the 200gr 38spl load was discussed ,
he used the term Widow Maker a few times.
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day. It should be no surprise that round-nosed bullets that don't expand will have poor terminal performance.

Even assuming a tumbling bullet, the wound channel would range between at most a round bullet diameter hole and an elongated bullet length x diameter hole, with the bullet likely tumbling once within the confines of a torso. Actual wound size would be smaller due to tissue elasticity and the bullet shape being inefficient at crushing tissue. In comparison, a properly designed HP will cut a larger wound channel due to having more area available to crush tissue and a more efficient tissue crushing shape.

The wounds commonly caused by 5.56mm FMJ ammunition such as M193 and M855 are a result of the bullet breaking up at it yaws, with the fragments cutting through tissue that has already been stretched by temporary cavitation. This ammunition has a reputation for inconsistent performance due to 1)fragmentation being highly velocity-dependent and 2)the depth at which the bullet starts to yaw being highly variable.
 
Halger280HVMag said:
What about all the undercover/detective guns that live in armpits and butt-cracks!:yingyang:

Do they use special primers??

How about military ammo??

Must be that Special Agent 666 "Toxic Sweat Weapon".:cool:
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Ha! This, BTW, is why so much LE and military ammo is rotated into surplus. Moisture and heat kill primers. And there are lots of discussions of this issue on American fora:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-504393.html

And another issue is bullet setback. This seems to be less of a problem with nines, according to a magazine article I read. And this would likely not be a problem unless one repeatedly removes and reloads the same rounds:

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-60905.html

I would also prefer heavy, hardcast bullets for animal defense, especially semiwadcutters. You need penetration with tetrapods, especially large animals like bears. Semiwadcutters often have feeding issues in autoloaders. And, again, no autoloader (i.e., exotica like .475 Wildey notwithstanding) has the sheer power of something like a .454 Casull. And, in Canada, a double-barreled shotgun makes the most sense: you can store it in a locked cabinet without a trigger lock, it takes seconds to load, it is very intimidating, and you can't nervously short-stroke it like a pumper. A non-restricted CZ 858 is also scary as Hell, and quickly loadable.

Oh, speaking of buttcracks...I recall a photo, a few years ago, in the Herald: a female CPS officer, snagging Johns in Eau Claire, with her Glock 22 stuffed into the back of her thong. Really stupid and unsafe.
 
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So your "proof" that sweat will kill primers is a 4 post thread where 50% of the posts call BS and that turns into the reason what the military surpluses ammo?

Shawn
 
Shot placement is more important there is no guaranteed one shot drop no matter where you hit gun. I saw a man get hit with a 25mm cannon in the legs and live for a good 20 minutes after. I've also seen people take deer with .22 Mag by hitting in the head. Personally I think it's more important to ensure you have enough penetration capability to get the job done.
 
tjhaile said:
Even assuming a tumbling bullet, the wound channel would range between at most a round bullet diameter hole and an elongated bullet length x diameter hole, with the bullet likely tumbling once within the confines of a torso. Actual wound size would be smaller due to tissue elasticity and the bullet shape being inefficient at crushing tissue. In comparison, a properly designed HP will cut a larger wound channel due to having more area available to crush tissue and a more efficient tissue crushing shape.
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I am not so sure this is correct. Aren't you forgeting a tumbling bullet is also spinning. When you see a entrance hole on paper it is a one dimensional view as the paper is two thiin to see the cross section. I would suggest the wound channel of a tumbling bullet would be the length of the bullet as it rotates around it's axis. I haven't seen one so you could well be correct.


Take Care

Bob
 
Agent666 said:
Ha! This, BTW, is why so much LE and military ammo is rotated into surplus. Moisture and heat kill primers. And there are lots of discussions of this issue on American fora:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-504393.html

And another issue is bullet setback. This seems to be less of a problem with nines, according to a magazine article I read. And this would likely not be a problem unless one repeatedly removes and reloads the same rounds:
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Hang on...do you think that surplused ammo has been loaded in to mags, carried for weeks or months, then been taken back out of the mags, loaded back in to factory packaging, and sold?

Because I'm fairly sure the stuff they surplus is unused, and therefore stored in their usual lockup, and therefore relatively cool and dry the whole time.

In any case I'm sure most of us here have surplus ammo that's decades old...I have crates of x39 that are 40-50 years old. No issues with that ammo.



Sometimes I wish that this forum would not tolerate uninformed speculation posted as fact, but I don't run the place.
 
misanthropist said:
Sometimes I wish that this forum would not tolerate uninformed speculation posted as fact, but I don't run the place.
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Can we assume from this you don't rotate your ammo daily due to your sweat neutering your primers. Man I am not so sure how safe I am going to feel driving through Abbptsford and surroundings knowing you may not be rotating your ammo. I just goota start buyig more gun magazines.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
I am not so sure this is correct. Aren't you forgeting a tumbling bullet is also spinning. When you see a entrance hole on paper it is a one dimensional view as the paper is two thiin to see the cross section. I would suggest the wound channel of a tumbling bullet would be the length of the bullet as it rotates around it's axis. I haven't seen one so you could well be correct.


Take Care

Bob
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A bullet would not make many rotations in its passage through the wound track. With the .38 Special as an example, typical rifling twist is around 1:18.75", which would work out to less than one rotation on the way through a typical torso.

From my understanding of the behaviour of yawing bullets, based on what Drs. Martin Fackler and Gary Roberts have written (see link below for example), is that the portion of the wound track in which yawing occurs would be oblong. Keep in mind also that the time the bullet spends at full yaw is a very small portion of the total wound track.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
 
I like to rotate my ammo twice on the drive to Abbottsford. It's a long way from Vancouver. The worst part is: in the summer it's hot, so that kills the primers, and in the winter it's wet, so that kills the primers.

Spring and fall I can sometimes get away with just rotating it once, halfway through the drive.
 
Sinasta said:
I should store my ammo and guns in a insulated lunch box to keep it away from heat and moisture.
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A guy could always go work for Pizza Hut delivery. You could pinch one of their delivery bags and like it is insulated and the fuzz would never suspect you would be storing a gun and ammo in a pizza bag. Well maybe one Fuzz in Vamcouver might but what are the odds.....just saying. Could open a whole new career path for some. I wonder of we could get Harper to amend the storage laws.....probably not.

Take Care

Bob
 
misanthropist said:
I like to rotate my ammo twice on the drive to Abbottsford. It's a long way from Vancouver. The worst part is: in the summer it's hot, so that kills the primers, and in the winter it's wet, so that kills the primers.

Spring and fall I can sometimes get away with just rotating it once, halfway through the drive.
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Are you interested in selling some of your sweated up surplus ammo?

I know it's near worthless now and likely to fail....but I'll pay more if you drove though Richmond with it.

You have to make sure it's de-linted though or I ain't buyin' that sh#t.
 
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shawn said:
I am still neutral on pizza crust, as the military has not yet surplused any ammo for pizza crust exposure.

Shawn
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I can't stay silent any longer. Pizza crust exposure issues are a myth! What do you think litters every gangster's coffee table? : Pizza crusts, gats(guns to the lay person), and bongs. Do their guns fire? - Of course! Pimpin' aint easy, they gots too! As long as you avoid anchovies, the crusts will have no effect. Bong water, on the other hand is very sticky, and by shooting guns sideways, you can clear that sh!t quick, if some fool comes creepin'.

thug_sideways_pistol_aim.jpg

By the way, punks like this be frontin'- the ejection port should be down if you're a real playa.
 
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