Remington 700R Milspec

KaptinKaos

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Hey all,

I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a heavy barreled, long range rifle for probably 5 years now and have finally settled on what I think will be a great entry rifle for me. Not too expensive, plain Jane, no frills and an out-of-the-box shooter out to the distances I would like to shoot. Some background of my criteria:

1 - NOT tactical. I'm not SAS, Spec Ops or any of that... I just have fun shooting my M39 and Mauser K98 out to 500 yards with irons and I'd like even more to stretch it past that with the addition of a great rifle and some good glass. I may eventually put it into an AI stock, but for now I'm content with the HS stock on it. Good cheek weld and long enough for my lanky frame.

2 - Not looking for anything more than to hit a 24" plate at 1000 yards and be 1 MOA at 200-300 yards. It's going to be a plinker unless I get serious about it in which case it may get some goodies.

3 - Not a hunting rifle/target rifle/safe queen. It needs to do ONE thing for me and it needs to do it well.

4 - Chambered in .308. I will be once firing factory ammo to get the brass I will use for reloading and working loads. .308 factory match ammo is relatively cheap in the long range calibers and with the availability of 175gr bullets for the 5R rifling in this rifle I should be able to work up a great load for the barrel and the distance I want.

5 - Be reliable, fairly low maintenance (SS) and easy to obtain aftermarket parts for if I require.

6 - Non-magazine fed. Drop floor plate.

So, all that being said I finally stumbled across the Rem 700 5R after looking at just about every single 1000 yard capable .308 that every manufacturer has to offer. I searched for info here on CGN after reading a WEALTH of info on google searches about this rifle and I'm sold on it now. I couldn't find much on CGN about it, though, which is why I am making this thread. I may have a line on one here on the EE, but if not I will wait for Gordon at MilArm to track me one down and bring it in. I've handled the rifle so I know it's a fit for me already versus a lot of the others I just didn't like. My eye came up short or tall on almost everything else and the ones that didn't were MUCH out of my price range or just a LOT more than what I wanted in a rifle for this purpose. I really don't wanna be that guy that shows up at Homestead with an $8000 setup and can't shoot worth a sh!t, lol!

I'll be glassing it with a Nightforce 12-42x56 or 8-32x56 as I don't really intend on shooting it much under 200 yards except maybe for load testing. The scope is also in my realm of affordability and has the features I want on it. Other than I don't think I'll do too much to the rifle other than shoot and enjoy it! I'm not a new shooter, just still new to long distance shooting even after 5 years of research. Please pardon any newbish things I might say as I'm not in the-know about every little detail yet. Yes, I do hand-load, but only for my 8mm's. .308 will be a new world for me I think as I only load one load for my 8mm because I know it works and I stick to it. Learning how to work up a .308 load and find the node that my rifle likes the best is a whole different thread and isn't part of what I'm asking here really, but any input is appreciated.

I'll be using an older Bushnell 20-60x60 spotting scope that my dad has had for decades unless it's not enough (won't know until I hit the backwoods this spring when the rifle arrives). Also picked up a fairly decent 1600m range finder that I can use to help with my calcs when I am re-positioning. I don't plan on shooting from one spot all the time. Half the reason I want to shoot long distance is because of the math involved and challenge of cold-boring something that far away when you get it all right, :D I have the mountains in my backyard so the options are endless. Elevation changes, distance changes, weather, etc.

The few questions I have are as follows:

1. - How are the triggers in these particular Remingtons? I've never owned a Remington action before and I've not shot many I liked, but I know a lot of guys that swear by the 700 in it's many forms. Are the triggers actually adjustable or are they like the Marlin interpretation of adjustable? If they are garbage I will drop a Jewel or Timney in it and go from there. Looking for 3lbs or so pull weight.

2. - Best factory ammo brass? Can anyone say which ammo provides better brass to get once-fired from? Remington? Federal? Or should I just buy Lapua brass, load 5% over minimum, once-fire and then work up a load after?

3. - If the Nightforce isn't your choice of 1000 yard glass, what is and why? Keep in mind that the $2000 mark is roughly what I intend to spend give or take $500 unless something a bit more is really worth it to a beginner/newb. Also, any and all input on retical choice is severly welcome. The only "real" scope I have is on my hunting rifle which is a BDC. I don't generally shoot over 200 yards with it though as I hunt in the woods. Hard to see the forest for trees, lol!

4. - Best bipod for prone shooting? I have a Bog Pod that I can use for everything, but I'd like a dedicated bipod for this rifle mostly for range/bench work and analyzing loads. I know it's not as good as a heavy locking bench rest, but if I can hit a 4L washer jug consistently at 500 yards with Mosin and irons I'm pretty sure I can do my part with a bipod and rear sand bag. I've never considered a bipod for any of my rifles before so I'm totally clueless about bipods and which brands are good and adjustability, etc etc... please, enlighten me!!!

Cheers and thanks in advance for any positive input that might help me from spending $$$ on stuff I don't need, etc.

Joe
 
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1. - How are the triggers in these particular Remingtons?
The box stock 5R I played with recently was very useable. Crisp and predictable at about 2 1/2 - 3 lbs. After the owner made minor tweaks to the take up and overtravel, the feel was so good that an aftermarket trigger will not be required.
2. - Or should I just buy Lapua brass, load 5% over minimum, once-fire and then work up a load after?
Definately Lapua. The necks are even(less runout), the primer pockets stay tight forever, consistent weights. They cost less in the long run, as you won't need to cull/toss rejects like domestic brass. Some of mine have been reloaded over 30 times and still going strong. They do get re-annealed when they are trimmed. Depending on how your chamber was cut, you may not need to fireform Lapua. Most of mine shoots the same before and after first firing.
3. - any and all input on retical choice is severly welcome.
There's much to be said for an uncluttered reticle. Plain old mil-dots, or with 1/2 mil hash marks, is how I prefer.
Come-ups are cranked on the turret ... mil-dots used for windage hold off.
4. - Best bipod for prone shooting?
Nothing wrong with the Harris. 6-9" br, swivel, notched leg, with pod-loc. Been holding under half moa out there in the granite and snowdrifts.
A scope level is valuable. More LR hits happen when you avoid cant.

Dies are important, straight ammo shoots better.
What works for me is; Lee Collet, Redding body, Redding or Forster BR seater.

You are so fortunate to live where long range shooting can be had ... here in the east we gotta jump through hoops to get out past 700 or so.
 
Excellent, excellent, excellent. Just what I needed to hear!

Hopefully the trigger on the 5R I get is as you describe, :D Lapua brass seems to be the bees-knees from the guys I've spoken to so far, just wanna make sure.

I too am a minimalist on a retical which is why I like a BDC. It's useless for long range though, lol! Mildots sound about right to me and will work perfect once I shoot enough and learn my windage for the round and holdover amounts.

*Edit - Yes, scope level is a definite must for me also. I never saw the need for one till this past summer trying to shoot at a 45 degree angle on a 3 gun course. Cant is bad, lol!

Been reading that the Harris is a good choice also. 6-9" should do for prone and anything else I can use my Bog Pod for (ie. crouch, sit, etc).

Is there a big difference between Lee and RCBS? I've been using pretty much strictly RCBS gear for all my loading mostly because I use my dad's old kit now that he doesn't hunt anymore. Are there carbide .308 dies that exist or is that way overkill?

Cheers and thanks for the input!!! Every bit helps while I get this build straight.
 
Congrats on investing in quality kit - particularly the scope. You will NEVER regret buying a nightforce. as to reticles, it is a personal choice, but I like them very uncluttered. Mil dots and such are basically obsolete and imprecise in the age of rangefinders. I like the NP2-DD.

The remington triggers are excellent and can be tuned down to 2 pounds or even less. Lapua brass is the only way to go.

Beware because the mystical koolaid fanclub will be saying you should buy Stevens guns, sightron scopes and use winchester brass and then buy all the upgrades. You have a good platform there. It will shoot well and it will want only for a custom barrel down the road to be turned into a 100% comptetition-winning rifle.
 
Congrats on investing in quality kit - particularly the scope. You will NEVER regret buying a nightforce. as to reticles, it is a personal choice, but I like them very uncluttered. Mil dots and such are basically obsolete and imprecise in the age of rangefinders. I like the NP2-DD.

The remington triggers are excellent and can be tuned down to 2 pounds or even less. Lapua brass is the only way to go.

Beware because the mystical koolaid fanclub will be saying you should buy Stevens guns, sightron scopes and use winchester brass and then buy all the upgrades. You have a good platform there. It will shoot well and it will want only for a custom barrel down the road to be turned into a 100% comptetition-winning rifle.

NP-2DD like this? I do like the NP-R2, but it's too coarse at 2 MOA...

NFC107.jpg


One more side note on scopes... Is it worth the extra $$$ to be looking at FFP instead of SFP? I know as much about each as the next guy from reading reams and reams of info and I'm not sure a FFP is worth it... or is it? Lol, it's why I ask. I don't know.

Also, looks like the NXS's are being discontinued...

Yeah, no tactikoolaid in my house. Just gun oil, motorbikes, Star Wars toys and ammo boxes filled with 1953 ball milsurp for my 8's, ;) Don't get me wrong, I have some gear that might fall into the tactikool category, but it's generally only stuff I use for 3 gun and it's mostly stuff I don't use anymore as I've gone past the need to look cool. Going to run a 2 piece belt only this year and see how it goes. I just like to shoot, :D Spending less = more ammo $$$ = I get to shoot more!
 
Your on the right track with the Rem 700 5R, the trigger can be tuned somewhat, it comes down to personal preference. I replaced every single rem trigger I have with Timney, or Jewels on my high end rifles. For bipods, to start out I'm a big fan of the canting versions of Harris bipods, lower to the ground, generally the better. Also check out my Christmas custom rifle thread and look at my sinclair tactical bipod, unless the name scares you off, lol As for your glass choice, NF is all I run on my target rifles, but IMO you are going way too high in magnification for your inteneded purposes. i would say stick with the 3.5-15x50 or 56mm, or if you must the 5.5-22 power, that magnification will get you as far as you'll need. If you are not going to utilize a "cluttered" reticle such as my personal favourite the NP-R1, then don't worry about FFP, you aren't ranging or using a reticle to hold for wind, so no need for FFP. If you want to save some money on your scope to say spend on the jewell trigger you can also look at Leuopold, Sightron and Vortex models with exposed target turrets and acceptable long range reticles. Just be sure to stay with a fine reticle, at distance a heavy reticle can cover your intended target, hence why I like the Np-R1 or Leupold TMR styles. Plus, these reticles allow me to hold for wind, which you have to do if you intend to shoot any distance.

As far as reloading, lapua brass cannot be beat, and in a strong action like the 700, starting as low as 5% above minimum seems overly cautious to me, but you are correct to be on the safe side till you get a feel for your rifle. Welcome to a new addiction
 
Your on the right track with the Rem 700 5R, the trigger can be tuned somewhat, it comes down to personal preference. I replaced every single rem trigger I have with Timney, or Jewels on my high end rifles. For bipods, to start out I'm a big fan of the canting versions of Harris bipods, lower to the ground, generally the better. Also check out my Christmas custom rifle thread and look at my sinclair tactical bipod, unless the name scares you off, lol As for your glass choice, NF is all I run on my target rifles, but IMO you are going way too high in magnification for your inteneded purposes. i would say stick with the 3.5-15x50 or 56mm, or if you must the 5.5-22 power, that magnification will get you as far as you'll need. If you are not going to utilize a "cluttered" reticle such as my personal favourite the NP-R1, then don't worry about FFP, you aren't ranging or using a reticle to hold for wind, so no need for FFP. If you want to save some money on your scope to say spend on the jewell trigger you can also look at Leuopold, Sightron and Vortex models with exposed target turrets and acceptable long range reticles. Just be sure to stay with a fine reticle, at distance a heavy reticle can cover your intended target, hence why I like the Np-R1 or Leupold TMR styles. Plus, these reticles allow me to hold for wind, which you have to do if you intend to shoot any distance.

As far as reloading, lapua brass cannot be beat, and in a strong action like the 700, starting as low as 5% above minimum seems overly cautious to me, but you are correct to be on the safe side till you get a feel for your rifle. Welcome to a new addiction

Thanks man!

Harris seems to be a name I hear over and over for bipods and really it won't be put through combat stress or durability testing. I will see if I can find a Sinclair when I get back to Canada so I can check one out. The names don't scare me off at all. I'll buy the best I can afford for the purpose, but if both a Harris and Sinclair do the same thing for me and one costs half... ;) It can be rigidly mounted to the rifle as I'll only be using it for that specific purpose on this one rifle. The NP-R1 is nice too... and being a SFP in the NF scopes I'm looking at it won't magnify to a much thicker line as you suggest. It's on my list now as something I need to look through and get a better opinion of for my own eye.

You really think a guy can have too much magnification? Or are you suggesting that I can get away with less if money is an issue? I've set aside a budget of $1500-2500 for the scope so I think the 8-32 and 12-42 are both in my reach. Go big or go home, right? Or will I find a stumbling block with too high of a power?

Another vote for Lapua brass. I can see it's popular, lol! Good thing I asked that question.

Yeah, 5% over min is pretty cautious, but it would just mean I'd burn less powder fire forming my brass is all. Working a load looking for a node with fire formed brass I'd probably start at 10% under max and load 20 rounds at each half grain interval to max. That way I could narrow it down to a grain or so and go from there. I'm not even going to entertain the idea of over pressure loads either. I like my eyes and finger where they are, lol!!!
 
Also check out my Christmas custom rifle thread...

Btw, those are some ###y rifles... I yearned for a long time after a TRG-42 and those both are as nice or better! I saw that thread yesterday which is what prompted me to get my ideas and build up here while overseas and get this project rolling!!!

Cheers!
 
comments

1. rempel bipod, do a net search you can pick one up for 440 or so as you live where they are made,

2. maybe try a couple boxes of federal gold medal match ammo from sponsor clay at prophet river you may not want to reload at first as this ammo seems to work in better chambers,

have fun jeff
 
Is there a big difference between Lee and RCBS?
For regular hunting type loads they will all work OK, but none of the regular type, expander button equiped dies can cut the mustard for precise long range ammo, IMO.
Runout is one problem, if you were to measure the standard dies results ... , 5 to 10 thou. TIR is typical. That expander button does bad things to case neck concentricity when it's dragged from the inside out. RCBS sizers squeeze the neck dia. way too far down, then way back out again with the expander. The brass is overworked, leading to short life and unnessessary stretching/trimming.
I spent decades trying to load match grade ammo with 'em. Frustration.

The collet is a neck die, it squeezes the caseneck down against a floating mandrel. No stretching. No lubing required. No runout induced. If your chamber spits out straight fired cases ... they will still be straight after collet resizing.
The body die is for the occasional light bump if cases get a wee bit hard to close the bolt on, or to use brass fired in another rifle.
The BR seater is nessessary to avoid runnout, My ammo typically goes 0 to 1 thou. TIR, measured out at the ogive. No more fliers at LR, if it was a miss,... it was me that missed.



Are there carbide .308 dies that exist
You don't need one, IMO.
Mil dots and such are basically obsolete and imprecise in the age of rangefinders.
For come ups, agree.
For wind, they are very usefull though.
 
For regular hunting type loads they will all work OK...I spent decades trying to load match grade ammo with 'em. Frustration.

The collet is a...No more fliers at LR, if it was a miss,... it was me that missed.

You don't need one, IMO.

For come ups, agree.
For wind, they are very usefull though.

^^^ Invaluable dude... I have a LOT to learn about loading match ammo...
 
Been reading that the Harris is a good choice also. 6-9" should do for prone and anything else I can use my Bog Pod for (ie. crouch, sit, etc).

I originally bought a 6-9" for the same purpose, but even at full extension, I personally find it too short for prone. I ended up buying a 9-13" and now my 6-9" only sees the bench...
 
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You really think a guy can have too much magnification?
:wave: Say bye-bye to this correspondent's CGN credibility .... here we go.
The vviking absolute favorite 'go to' 6.5x55 LR rig, it wears a, "cough, mumble, ahem" .... fixed 10X "Super Sniper"b:.
Bought 10 years ago, when even $400 bucks was torture to find, it works so well out to 1000 that I see no gain in upgrading.
Fixed power has advantages; the sight picture is consistent, over time one gets used to judging wind hold offs .... less guesswork when it always looks the same.
but IMO you are going way too high in magnification for your inteneded purposes. i would say stick with the 3.5-15x50 or 56mm,
Yup. High power has it's place(F class, BR, etc.). In the field, much over 15X is not an asset. Barrel heat waves dance the crosshairs. Mirage. That sharp rock digging into yer belly. Numb trigger finger. Heavy pulse.

It does help to have a good spotter calling POI's from yer bullet trace.
 
For me out of my Nemesis 308, really got good reloads with Lapua brass but i really struckted the Eldorado with the Norma case, softer on the primer pocket true but best uniformity in case construction and uniformity in weight, to this day my most precise load with 155 gr Scenars... JP.
 
don't waste time or money on a FFP scope. You will not need them. Again, something that us used with scope ranging - a thing big in the tacticool crowd, but nobody uses or needs in known-distance shooting. Precision shooters what finer reticles, not something that magnifies with the zoom

The NP2 DD is 1MOA between the dot and the lines and that is perfect for fine tuning with hold-off.
 
I agree with Paperslayer - avoid FFP scopes unless you absolutely NEED that function for ranging. A good, quality, scope with SFP, fine crosshair and as much mag as possible will be perfect.
 
2 - Not looking for anything more than to hit a 24" plate at 100 yards and be 1 MOA at 200-300 yards. It's going to be a plinker unless I get serious about it in which case it
I assume you mean a 24" plate at 1,000 yards? A decent factory rifle (such as the .308 Rem 700 5R) is not as accurate as a purpose-built target rifle, even if you do a good job and make very good ammo. So it is not realistic to expect to be able to hit a 24" plate at 1000 yards nearly all the time, with a factory rifle. However, if you do do everything right, it is reasonable to expect to be able to hit it more often that you miss it, which is enough to have a great deal of fun (and likely start you down a very expensive and very addictive road.... ;-)

For reference - the DCRA 1000-yard target has a 24" diameter 5-ring. A good shooter, with a good rifle, with good wind reading skills, in light or steady winds, can hit this nearly 100% of the time (but it's hard, and takes a lot of concentration!).

4 - Chambered in .308. I will be once firing factory ammo to get the brass I will use for reloading and working loads. .308 factory match ammo is relatively cheap in the long range calibers and with the availability of 175gr bullets for the 5R rifling in this rifle I should be able to work up a great load for the barrel and the distance I want.

Excellent choice of calibre. Myself, I wouldn't call .308 factory match ammo "relatively cheap", but then again _I_ am pretty cheap ;-)

If you are going to handload, you might consider using Berger 185 LRBT bullets. The Sierra 175HPMK is a very good bullet (good performance for long range shooting, and quite "forgiving", in that it is easy to get a good accurate load worked out). The Berger 185 LRBT is the go-to default bullet for .308 F-Class shooting nowadays. It is a *very* high performance bullet (less wind drift), and is also an "easy" bullet to work with. It is pricier than the Sierra; if you can tolerate this, it is an all-round better choice than the Sierra.

Use good brass (Lapua is an excellent choice. Next best choice probably Winchester).

Don't fuss about fireforming your brass. It doesn't matter whether your brass is brand new, fireformed and neck-sized, or fireformed and full-length sized. It is pretty straightforward to load good 1000 yard ammo for a .308 - this is well-trod, well-known ground. Find out what all the good shooters are doing, and rip off their work. Nothin secret or magic about any of this.

I'll be glassing it with a Nightforce 12-42x56 or 8-32x56 as I don't really intend on shooting it much under 200 yards except maybe for load testing. The scope is also in my

Nothing at all wrong (!!!) with either of these scopes, in fact they are top-tier pieces of kit. I only recently tried out a Nightforce (12-42X IIRC) and I was *really* impressed with it.

If I were you, I'd put more into your rifle, even at the expense of putting less into your scope. There are a number of $700-$1200 scopes which are perfectly good to use, even though they are not as good as the Nightforces. To the extent that you'd be giving something up, it would be quite small, in comparison to the very large improvement you could make over a straight factory rifle. The single most important and useful upgrade you can make to a factory rifle is to put a good barrel on it (this might cost you on the order of $600-$700).

1. - How are the triggers in these particular Remingtons?

On the one hand, Remington trigger are mass produced pieces of crap, in comparison to a $200-$300 custom trigger. On the other hand, and to Remington's credit, the triggers are adjustable and to be honest can be adjusted to be pretty clean and pretty darn shootable. I think it's quite an unsafe design, I would never use or trust the safety on a Remington, however that is absolutely no impediment to a target rifle or a plinker rifle.

Since you don't need to adjust your trigger to a very low pull weight (BTW you are correct in this), you can make out quite fine with a Remington factory trigger. Adjust the sear engagement so that it is _clean_ (which is far more important than being _light_). Make sure that the trigger is safe (verify that it won't fire if you close the bolt too firmly, etc).

If you like a mil-dot or ranging reticle, fill your boots by all means. But there's no need for anything fancy - get a reticle you like and that you can see, use your wind and elevation knobs, and/or holdover/holdoff, and you will be able to hit your target.

Personally I like a heavy reticle; I acknowledge that most target shooters prefer unusually light reticles. One thing I will say in favour of heavy(er) reticles is that if your reticle "disappears" or is difficult for you to see (especially against darker or irregular targets), you are giving up any and all supposed advantages of a finer reticle. Another thing I'll point out is that you are able to aim a reticle to a much finer degree of precision that the reticle itself.

4. - Best bipod for prone shooting?

There are a number of $400-class bipods made for F-Class. They are gorgeous and you might want to look at them. Having said that, one can get very good results from a $100-ish Harris or clone (suggestion: get the "swivel" version). There are only two bad things I have to say about the Harris style bipods, and neither of these is a showstopper. One is that they are a bit slow to adjust and set up (you have to get out of shooting position in order to alter the height). The other is that usually they "hop" when you shoot, requiring you to rebuild your position for each shot you fire. Having said that, a Harris bipod won't stand in the way of you shooting 10" groups at 1000 yards (many other things will... ;-)

You really think a guy can have too much magnification? Or are you suggesting that I can get away with less if money is an issue? I've set aside a budget of $1500-2500

If you're shooting from a prone supported position, I think the answer to this is "No". The strongest rifle scope I've used has been 42X and it was great. If there is such as thing as "too much scope", I haven't seen it yet and I am still looking for it.

I've used as little as 15X - a $250 Weaver KT15, with which I shot a pretty spectacular 1000 yard score off my elbows; the target looked too small to hit but the 10s and Xs just kept coming up. Later I used this scope on a .308 to shoot F-Class pretty competitively at 300-600 yards (10 years ago; F-Class shooters and gear have gotten a *lot* better since then).

I've looked through a 10X scope at 1000 yards - didn't do any shooting with it but man did the target look *small*. Having said that, a good shooter can shoot pretty darn good scores with a 10X scope. And most of my 1000 yard shooting is done with only 1.5X magnification, and somehow I manage to hit the bullseye most of the time even though I can't even see it.

reloading dies - get good ones.

Get one of the good seaters with a micrometer adjustment. Redding is very good. Forster is just as good and is quite a bit cheaper.

If you get Lapua brass, you can get away with using a bushing neck die (e.g. Redding "S" type). Very quick and convenient (no need to lube or clean brass when you size; and Lapua is consistent enough that you don't need to turn necks). A Lee Collet die is a viable alternate - it's much yuckier to use but it does just as good a job.

You'll also need and want a full length sizing die or a body sizing die. If you have a neck die, all you need to complement it is a body die (no need to get a FL die).

To make good 1000 yard ammo, you'll need a chronograph (on instead of a chronograph, you can test your ammo at 1000 yards).

You won't need a chrono to make good 600y ammo.
 
Very good post by rnbra-shooter. How ever I'd like to suggest (ok point out) that the Harris style bipods only hop with improper technique , if your behind the rifle correctly , and load the bipod properly you come right back down onto target after the recoil pulse .

That being said MANY people have a very hard time shooting that style of bipod correctly and many will see better results from and f-class style . Personally I can't shoot from f-class types or front rests , my groups open way up if you can I'd suggest befor making your purchase of such a "small" item talk to some buddies and try theirs out on your rifle first
 
I find the Versa pod 5 -7 inch combined to a rear Accupod monopod 3.5 inch to be a very steady ( more efficient than sand bags to my taste ) set up... JP.
 
:wave: Say bye-bye to this correspondent's CGN credibility .... here we go.
The vviking absolute favorite 'go to' 6.5x55 LR rig, it wears a, "cough, mumble, ahem" .... fixed 10X "Super Sniper"b:.
Bought 10 years ago, when even $400 bucks was torture to find, it works so well out to 1000 that I see no gain in upgrading.
Fixed power has advantages; the sight picture is consistent, over time one gets used to judging wind hold offs .... less guesswork when it always looks the same.

Yup. High power has it's place(F class, BR, etc.). In the field, much over 15X is not an asset. Barrel heat waves dance the crosshairs. Mirage. That sharp rock digging into yer belly. Numb trigger finger. Heavy pulse.

It does help to have a good spotter calling POI's from yer bullet trace.

No loss to credibility. I can hit stuff I can't see with milsurp rifles and irons out at 500 yards so I know exactly what you're talking about. My old man gets angry cause he just doesn't understand what my brain and eyes are doing. I always try to explain to him that it's thousands of rounds down range and it's more a feeling of knowing you're on target than actually knowing it. He always calls bullsh!t, but then I'll ring that plate a few times in a row and he keeps quiet, lol!

Never thought about fixed power, but me being a glass newb/long range newb then I think I should take the advantage of decent magnification until I learn more about windage/hold offs/hold overs. It could be useful for me to have the ability to see the effect of everything and understand it before trying to implement it with a lower power scope. What about that fancy new ATACR that NF just announced? 5-25x56 I believe... My spotter is 67, cranky and has 3 different pairs of glasses... He's near blind, LOL! I think the only help I'll get from him is some nagging and maybe he'll pour my coffee when my hands freeze, ;)
 
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