Elk slaughter in Manitoba

That fat nasty pig that was trying to starve herself...you know...the leader of that "Iswattedacat First Nation", did you guys see on the news last night: She was paying her "common-law Boyfriend at the time" $850 per day to help her run the sess pool nation. This came from him when he was interviewed. Thats $26,350/month....$316,200/year. I could only imagine what she was getting. And she is trying to starve herself to put the gov`t on the spot to help her nation out.....lmao yeah what ever.....WE are all watching you.....lol.
 
this thread has taught me a whole lot about the general attitude of a great many people here towards my race...... and i'm not too happy about it.
i'm a direct descendant of one of the original treaty signing chiefs. the creation of this very country we all live in was not possible without the people so many of you here hold in contempt. my blood goes back to the very early 1600's and i am canadian. deal with it.

if 10 CGN'ers went hunting on a CGN deer or elk or moose hunt and everyone shot an animal , you all would assume they did it ethically and everyone would be back slappin and saying way to go boys.
if it was 10 aboriginal hunters....... well we all know what it would digress to.

**editted to add this: I am canadian, I am metis, I am an ethical, conservation minded hunter. As a metis and like a great many of us, I frown on waste and unconservation like practices by all hunters/gatherers.

my advice to mods is to lock this thread before this thread gets any more offensive.
 
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Dusty23 said:
It's attitudes like this that keep all sides at odds. Just sayin'.
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Well somebody has to speak on behalf of the wildlife and when you have the provincial government, The Manitoba Wildlife Association, Manitoba Lodges and Outfitters and even SCI are taking a stance on behalf of of the Metis Federation someone has to say something. It's not that I'm condemning Metis Rights it's that I'm condemning the notion that the Metis Federation has the staff of Wildlife biologists, game managers and enforcement officials out there to say that they can provide valuable input into the state and management of our wildlife stocks. Before you condemn my attitude maybe you should take a look at your own province and the state of the moose stocks there. Last time I checked it was taking NB'ers how long to draw a tag? I don't want to see the stocks in my province depleted to that point so that's why I'm speaking out against unregulated harvest and the fact that the wildlife organizations in this province seem to have their head in the sand about it. Everyone's so scared about being politically correct, sc*ew that. I have no problem with metis rights it's just the way they are administered. Most of my friends are Metis and they know my stance on this issue. I live in a predominantly Metis community and I know a lot of hunters that are honest conscientious hunters that hunt by the rules, I know others that still hunt within the rules but are greedy pigs, and still others that are just out and out poachers hiding behind their harvester cards. The point is that the Manitoba Metis Federation has no idea what it's members are doing. They rely on members policing themselves, that will not work! Everybody's so quick to jump on the "Indian Industry" bandwagon these days that they forget where they came from. Hunting rights were important to peoples when we lived a substinence life style, not many do any more! Technology has far outstripped any advantages the animals had 200 years ago when the treaties were written, and all of a sudden everyone has shunned their European background to grab a piece of the pie. Does my attitude stink? Maybe! At least my attitude will continue to speak out on behalf of moose, elk and deer populations while they're still around. After that I guess I'll have to travel elsewhere to hunt. Rant's over flame away.
 
Big Game said:
Well somebody has to speak on behalf of the wildlife and when you have the provincial government, The Manitoba Wildlife Association, Manitoba Lodges and Outfitters and even SCI are taking a stance on behalf of of the Metis Federation someone has to say something. It's not that I'm condemning Metis Rights it's that I'm condemning the notion that the Metis Federation has the staff of Wildlife biologists, game managers and enforcement officials out there to say that they can provide valuable input into the state and management of our wildlife stocks. Before you condemn my attitude maybe you should take a look at your own province and the state of the moose stocks there. Last time I checked it was taking NB'ers how long to draw a tag? I don't want to see the stocks in my province depleted to that point so that's why I'm speaking out against unregulated harvest and the fact that the wildlife organizations in this province seem to have their head in the sand about it. Everyone's so scared about being politically correct, sc*ew that. I have no problem with metis rights it's just the way they are administered. Most of my friends are Metis and they know my stance on this issue. I live in a predominantly Metis community and I know a lot of hunters that are honest conscientious hunters that hunt by the rules, I know others that still hunt within the rules but are greedy pigs, and still others that are just out and out poachers hiding behind their harvester cards. The point is that the Manitoba Metis Federation has no idea what it's members are doing. They rely on members policing themselves, that will not work! Everybody's so quick to jump on the "Indian Industry" bandwagon these days that they forget where they came from. Hunting rights were important to peoples when we lived a substinence life style, not many do any more! Technology has far outstripped any advantages the animals had 200 years ago when the treaties were written, and all of a sudden everyone has shunned their European background to grab a piece of the pie. Does my attitude stink? Maybe! At least my attitude will continue to speak out on behalf of moose, elk and deer populations while they're still around. After that I guess I'll have to travel elsewhere to hunt. Rant's over flame away.
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No need to flame you for that post. You seem to have a good take on things in your area. In BC metis have no real harvest rights like manitoba and others. So I can't honestly say I understand what's going on in manitoba from a conservation point of view.

It's an interesting discussion when it's kept civil.
I agree with the need for accountability and responsibilty in all hunting harvests by all hunters.
It's good to have. Both sides of the discussion and we should all be able to do so to help create a mangeable arrangement... For the wildlife.
As for moose populations in BC GMZ 5B where I live. Heavily restricted to native harvest , guide allocation and limitted entry for hunters (lottery)
First nations make up a large percentage of local populations. Moose population in my hunting areas were excellent this season and there more roaming around this winter than I've seen in recent memory.
Not seeing calves and fawns like in years past. In BC it's wolves causing widespread depletion of ungulates hands down.
Anyway, that's it.
We can have this discussion, I just think some folks here should think about what they are posting
 
45ACPKING said:
if 10 CGN'ers went hunting on a CGN deer or elk or moose hunt and everyone shot an animal , you all would assume they did it ethically and everyone would be back slappin and saying way to go boys.
if it was 10 aboriginal hunters....... well we all know what it would digress to.
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Similar to what was posted before me, 10 non natives would never have a chance to take 10 animals. For example, I have been moose hunting in Ontario for 10 years, we needed (as non natives) 11 members (in our WMU) to apply together to guarantee a tag for a bull this past season, and I think it was 13 for a Cow tag. Our hunting party has been hunting together as a group of 10 people for 9 of the past 10 years, and in the first 9 seasons we were lucky enough to draw a Bull tag 2 times and a Cow tag one time, thats 3 tags for a 9 year period for 10 non natives. We had to invite a friend in this year to get 11 and get a bull tag, so 4 total tags in 11 years. Take a wild guess how many moose hunts we have been successful with.........ZERO. I thought this year was going to be "our year" and I'll be honest, we are all getting frustrated, spending money on the tags, the licenses, the traveling to get to camp, the camp itself, etc etc etc etc and 10 years in, NOT A SINGLE MOOSE KILL for our party. So let me continue my story, this year we headed up the day before opening day, and our "guest" showed up 2 days early to get some bird hunting in. On the Friday morning the day before the season opened for us NON Natives, our guest parked his truck on a road, got out to walk into a trail looking for some birds to shoot with his 410, up behind him pulls a truck and a Native gets out with a rifle and say "hey, you gonna shoot that moose, Ray looks up the road and sees a Bull standing IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD and says, "sorry, not till tomorrow when the season opens".....BANG!!! the native shoots it FROM a road, NOT on a reservation, and hits it IN THE ROAD. Then he tell ray he got a cow and a calf a week earlier in the same exact spot.

So long story done, that bull was VERY close to our camp, it "could" have been our year, but nope, never happened.

And you wonder why non natives are getting sooooo friggin frustrated when we pay and pay and pay to hunt, but we are playing in a VERY unfair game. So when all the animals are gone, what will the non natives have to give your people? Hate me for MY opinion if you like, I see it, I hear it happening and I'm finally getting tired of being "politically correct"
 
darcy32171 said:
That fat nasty pig that was trying to starve herself...you know...the leader of that "Iswattedacat First Nation", .
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She’s not starving herself. She’s eating soup and drinking water. That whole hunger strike she claims she’s on is a load of crap to make people feel bad for her and her people. Mind you by the size of her, a diet would do her well..

This morning I read on CP 24 that she doesn’t like the idea of getting audited because they are out to make her look bad. If you didn’t have anything to hide why pull that s hit? We white man work our ass off and these people get a free ride off of our tax dollars yet it’s still not or will not ever be good enough.

In December I was bow hunting for deer in wmu55a. The deer were on the move migrating east due to snow and cold weather and were funneling in between the two lakes. Guess who was sitting there waiting with rifles.. One day while sitting in the stand a whole bunch of people opened up with high power semi rifles and must have shot at least 20-30 times. Then a few days later I was in another area 10km away, more shooting. . Guess there’s no limit on how many deer they can shoot. I have never hunted that late in the season so was unaware what really went on once all the white man were done. Little did I know after talking to some of the locals it’s a yearly thing they do.
 
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45ACPKING said:
No need to flame you for that post. You seem to have a good take on things in your area. In BC metis have no real harvest rights like manitoba and others. So I can't honestly say I understand what's going on in manitoba from a conservation point of view.

It's an interesting discussion when it's kept civil.
I agree with the need for accountability and responsibilty in all hunting harvests by all hunters.
It's good to have. Both sides of the discussion and we should all be able to do so to help create a mangeable arrangement... For the wildlife.
As for moose populations in BC GMZ 5B where I live. Heavily restricted to native harvest , guide allocation and limitted entry for hunters (lottery)
First nations make up a large percentage of local populations. Moose population in my hunting areas were excellent this season and there more roaming around this winter than I've seen in recent memory.
Not seeing calves and fawns like in years past. In BC it's wolves causing widespread depletion of ungulates hands down.
Anyway, that's it.
We can have this discussion, I just think some folks here should think about what they are posting
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It is too bad that all stakeholders can't sit at the table and have a rational discussion about the state of our wildlife. Unfortunately too many emotions and old prejudices boil up from both sides. Times and the landscape have changed in the past 200 years it seems though that people haven't. It's too bad that this type of post always seems to bring out the worst in everyone, especially when we all share a common bond in the love of hunting and spending time in the outdoors.
 
bearkilr said:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/only-one-kill-each-hunters-say-185737462.html
THEY got lucky.

They could have shot more, but they only killed what they needed.

That's what aboriginal hunter Ron Flett said Friday about the shooting of 12 elk on private land in the Duck Mountain area shortly after Christmas.

Flett said he was one of 12 hunters at the scene who took an animal each.

"The way I see it, there was 12 treaty hunters feeding their families," said Flett, who lives in Birch River, about 35 kilometres north of Swan River.

"We were lucky enough to tag out. It's not that normal to get that many animals. A lot of time we'll go and we'll be lucky enough to get one. A lot of times we don't even get one.

"That morning, when we looked out we ran into about 100 of them. We just took what we needed. There was 12 of us, so we took 12. We didn't shoot 20 or 30, which we could have, but we didn't. We just took what we went there to get. When we get more than one shooter, it doesn't take long to knock them down."

A cellphone video and photographs of the elk kill, recorded and posted by his son, Riley, on his Facebook page, set off a firestorm on the Internet as critics alleged the dead animals were a symbol of irresponsible hunting.

Manitoba Conservation and Water Stewardship officials launched an investigation into the authenticity of Riley Flett's video and whether any illegal activity occurred, including to see if bait was used. Baiting elk is prohibited for all hunters in Manitoba's chronic wasting disease and tuberculosis protection zones.

Critics also used the incident to call on the province to do more to protect the province's elk herds, which are being hunted more frequently because of bans on moose hunting in some parts of the province.

The bans were imposed to allow moose numbers to increase. Besides hunting, moose numbers are down because of winter ticks and predation.

"Now that moose are closed, we've got to take a few more elk than we normally would," Flett said.

Flett said the hunt took place on private land where there were old alfalfa bales.

"Any farmer has bales laying out on their fields. If the animals come to them, well, I guess that's their option, but they're not put out there just to get them in there."

Flett also said he and the other hunters were careful to shoot what animals they needed.

"There are some bulls there, some calves and some yearlings and a couple of cows. People made it out that we went out and shot a bunch of pregnant cows. That's not correct. Those were dry cows. We didn't find any calves when we gutted them out."

He also said he and others walked through the area afterwards to make sure no elk were wounded and ran into the trees.

"We were satisfied that there none that were wounded, none that we could find anyway."

Flett said he and landowner Les Nelson met with media in Swan River and with Natural Resources officers to set the record straight about the hunt.

"Hopefully we can put this whole thing to rest," he said. "It's been blown all out of proportion. It's all over the Internet and people are commenting and some pretty rude comments are being thrown back and forth and there are accusations that don't need to be there."

Flett said if he were white, he and his family would not be criticized.

"If this was one of those wilderness TV shows, where they record their hunts and stuff and they're selling videos on it, nobody says nothing. But when it's First Nations feeding their families, everyone jumps on it."

He said the 12 animals have been processed and the meat is being distributed to family members.

None of the meat is being sold.

"There was nothing wasted. Natural Resources can confirm that. They did their investigation and took a look. As First Nations we don't waste anything. We make everything count."
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Elk Investigation Continues

Story was last updated at: 2013-01-08 11:29:02
http://cj104radio.com/news/cjn9200_9507_DNS1_01.html

Despite protests of innocence by those involved, Manitoba Conservation reports that the investigation into the hunting of a dozen elk early last week is continuing. Hunter Ron Flett has spoken to media outlets, saying that the number of elk killed was proportionate to the amount of hunters, and that no laws were broken. A spokesperson from the province tells CJ104 that they are continuing to investigate the incident. This hunt garnered attention from media across the province when photos of the elk piled into the back of a pickup truck were posted on a social media site by Flett''s son.



Whether they were legal or not, and "We only took 1 elk per hunter". It is also compared often to "What if it was twelve whiteman who shot them...".

They would have taken down more if they could have. Remember in the video? "The bull got away". Anyways...

I haven't see it mentioned in this thread yet, but there is the whole logistics to processing that many animals shot at once without any spoilage.

Flett assures us that there was no waste. He is from Birch River which is 100km north of Benito, which is north of the Duck Mountains where these animals were shot:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?lr=&cr=&...l=en&q=google maps "birch river"&sa=N&tab=wl


So they have a dozen animals down and start to load the trucks before gutting them as seen in the photos. How long does that take?

Then these ungutted animals which are piled on one another are hauled north a minimum of an hour travel time, probably closer to an hour and a half at least before they get to somebody's place to start gutting and skinning. How long does that take?

What kind of facility do they have where they can get that many animals cooling before any spoilage occurs?

And they say there is no waste? No ethical hunter, regardless of their color or status, would shoot so many animals without being able to process them quickly if they were intended to be used for meat.

Should be an interesting report...
 
It is too bad that all stakeholders can't sit at the table and have a rational discussion about the state of our wildlife. Unfortunately too many emotions and old prejudices boil up from both sides. Times and the landscape have changed in the past 200 years it seems though that people haven't. It's too bad that this type of post always seems to bring out the worst in everyone, especially when we all share a common bond in the love of hunting and spending time in the outdoors.
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How about we settle it this way.Our government notifies all of the band chiefs that effective in 90 days, all Canadian hunters will be hunting under the same rules and regulations. The government then invites representatives for the natives for input on what those rules will be, the only condition being, that whatever the natives decide, the same rules will apply to everyone. They will have the option of making it a free for all for everyone, which would soon lead to the demise of our game populations, with no animals left for anyone to hunt, or they would agree to accept regulations that would allow a harvest by everyone, yet allow our game populations to survive at sustainable levels. We would soon see just how much the native people care about their hunting heritage, and about our game populations.
 
rubberdown said:
Similar to what was posted before me, 10 non natives would never have a chance to take 10 animals. For example, I have been moose hunting in Ontario for 10 years, we needed (as non natives) 11 members (in our WMU) to apply together to guarantee a tag for a bull this past season, and I think it was 13 for a Cow tag. Our hunting party has been hunting together as a group of 10 people for 9 of the past 10 years, and in the first 9 seasons we were lucky enough to draw a Bull tag 2 times and a Cow tag one time, thats 3 tags for a 9 year period for 10 non natives. We had to invite a friend in this year to get 11 and get a bull tag, so 4 total tags in 11 years. Take a wild guess how many moose hunts we have been successful with.........ZERO. I thought this year was going to be "our year" and I'll be honest, we are all getting frustrated, spending money on the tags, the licenses, the traveling to get to camp, the camp itself, etc etc etc etc and 10 years in, NOT A SINGLE MOOSE KILL for our party. So let me continue my story, this year we headed up the day before opening day, and our "guest" showed up 2 days early to get some bird hunting in. On the Friday morning the day before the season opened for us NON Natives, our guest parked his truck on a road, got out to walk into a trail looking for some birds to shoot with his 410, up behind him pulls a truck and a Native gets out with a rifle and say "hey, you gonna shoot that moose, Ray looks up the road and sees a Bull standing IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD and says, "sorry, not till tomorrow when the season opens".....BANG!!! the native shoots it FROM a road, NOT on a reservation, and hits it IN THE ROAD. Then he tell ray he got a cow and a calf a week earlier in the same exact spot.

So long story done, that bull was VERY close to our camp, it "could" have been our year, but nope, never happened.

And you wonder why non natives are getting sooooo friggin frustrated when we pay and pay and pay to hunt, but we are playing in a VERY unfair game. So when all the animals are gone, what will the non natives have to give your people? Hate me for MY opinion if you like, I see it, I hear it happening and I'm finally getting tired of being "politically correct"
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Here is a question for you. Keep in mind that I am not just trying to stir the pot, it's a legitimate question. What would you and others have Native hunters do; Hunt prior to the opening of the season?, Hunt after the season closes?, or Hunt during season with a proper license( some of which require to be drawn, meaning that a non-native would have lost their draw)?

I typically hunt after the season closes to stay out of others way, but I am just curious about what others think.
 
45ACPKING said:
my blood goes back to the very early 1600's and i am canadian. deal with it.
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All this back and forth won't change any minds or opinions. If any one of these people were wearing Metis shoes they'd be agreeing with you. If the people in this thread would read the ruling by the courts today, they'd see why judges think Metis should have expanded services by the crown. These special protections and rights are just a form of nation building, when the lands were conquered hundreds of years ago and the native people were discriminated against, of course they're going to live in poverty for a while. Eventually things will balance out and this whole two-tier race system will go away, but until then, it's a matter of Indian people getting on their feet. This race issue is pretty tame when compared to what's going on in Europe with the rapid influx of people from everywhere who want to make 60k / year and drive a Mercedes upon arrival. The native folks in Canada just seem to want an apology, some land, and a bit of respect.

The Europeans that came to this country were put into an atmosphere where they had opportunity, and they built this country to the point where now they can lift up the native folks. Not to go on a tangent but what I find funny is how new Canadians argue that everyone was an immigrant at one point, completely missing the fact that 200 years ago there were zero social services. The original immigrants came to a frozen wasteland and built up the country, new immigrants show up and have the world handed to them, and complain they don't have the same opportunities that other families have. They completely miss the fact that they will get in one generation what it took European immigrants hundreds of years to accomplish.

I can trace my European ancestry back to the 1460's, and the aboriginal side comes into play a little bit after. Basically the family unit killed beavers, fled the USA, came to Canada, fought the Canadians, and then had to move west to BC because the Europeans decimated the wildlife while claiming all the land. There was no inheritance for me, there's hundreds of years of discrimination and racism. I was told at a young age to hide the fact that I'm kind of an Indian. There were no treaties because there was no band to deal with, so that makes it twice as bad, because now there's a lack of inheritance and no reparations from the people who profiteered off the land. I'm not complaining, or trying to blame everyone but myself, I'm just laying it out as it is. The whole reason we have a European version of conservation is because they basically killed everything, and by introducing luxury goods to aboriginals, the natives started killing everything for profit. It never used to be like that, when people say the Indians were the original 'protectors of the land' they're right. Back 600 years ago it was all about conservation, or giving back, because there was no need to profit. Now it's all about cars, booze, and big TV's, which ultimately comes from greed and pride (status) - the aboriginals just didn't have these concepts. Not that they need to be put on a pedestal, but if you think about it, this concept of ownership and status is what leads to resource poaching. This is why we're in this situation with wildlife.

The thing I find funny is how I grew up with hundreds of aboriginals, and all the poachers I know are white guys. Most of the native kids I knew couldn't care less about hunting, so this whole topic may just be a footnote in the generations that follow, who knows.
 
Dusty23 said:
Here is a question for you. Keep in mind that I am not just trying to stir the pot, it's a legitimate question. What would you and others have Native hunters do; Hunt prior to the opening of the season?, Hunt after the season closes?, or Hunt during season with a proper license( some of which require to be drawn, meaning that a non-native would have lost their draw)?

I typically hunt after the season closes to stay out of others way, but I am just curious about what others think.
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Thats a fair question to me. Had the native that poached the moose on the road where we hunt (not on native land) started hunting on the same start date as the rest of us, MAYBE we would have gotten a bull, maybe he would have gotten a bull.

I dont feel Native should be allowed to hunt from public roads, or shoot from a vehicle, or hunt all year long, or take as many animals they feel they are entitled to. If I made the rules, they would first and foremost have to pass a hunter safety course, to me this is very important and can save lives, human lives. I would have everyone, natives or not, all hunt the same seasons with the same rules and regulations, same bag limits and same draw systems to get tags. You have to remember, this is not the 1800's, using the excuse they need to feed their families is crap, I need to feed my family too and I like to put game meat in the freezer, but I dont depend on it to survive, what I depend on is the job I got when I finished high school, the apprenticeship I spent 4 years doing to be in a certified trade and the job I have that I have worked my ass off at for the last 22 years to provide for my family. THAT my friend is what I depend on to provide. Almost the entire world (3rd world countries excluded) have grown and grown and the only way to survive and provide is to get yourself educated and earn a living, not expect it to be handed to you with special rules (no rules) and hunt and take what you want when you want. Remember, I said this isnt the 1800's anymore, people all over Canada can go to a grocery store, can earn a living, can do all these things without the mindset of thinking "its my right to hunt wherever, whenever, for whatever and however many I want"
 
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