Battledyne arrive, quick review.

I ran another ~500, or a 100 rounds through my 5 mags. This brings my total to about 200 rounds per mag. This weekend I was having the same problem reported by bowzy; however I only had averaged 2-3 malfunctions per mag.

I found the faster I unloaded, the more often the malfunction.

-b
 
I'm wondering, can someone who has "perfect" running mags have a look inside and compare the gap where the nose of the bullet is in this picture to theirs?
Maybe the wide gap is causing extra friction and creating problems.

QIr0KF2.jpg
 
norrish,

Have you found the mag spring loosening up at all having put that many rounds through? I'm finding after about 12 to 15 rounds they get to be a real b!tch to load up to 25.

And yes, before anyone chimes in, I'll lube the mags and see if that helps as well.

norrish said:
I ran another ~500, or a 100 rounds through my 5 mags. This brings my total to about 200 rounds per mag. This weekend I was having the same problem reported by bowzy; however I only had averaged 2-3 malfunctions per mag.

I found the faster I unloaded, the more often the malfunction.

-b
Click to expand...
 
I was able to goto the indoor range tonight and do a few more tests. Overall it was a better result than the first go with the Battledyne mags. Still needs work though.

I can't do rapid fire at the indoor, so each shot had about a 3 second pause between. I had previously put 25rnds in each mag and left them in for 48hrs to try and weaken the spring. I also got some FrogLube and took a q-tip and coated the inside where bullets are fed and the follower. Tried out CCI Minimag, CCI AR Tactical bulk, CCI Blazer bulk and Remington Thunderbolt. Minimags ran great, but after I loaded more than 10 rounds I would get high feed jams. CCI AR Tactical jammed twice out of 10 rounds, these rounds are a bit waxy on the tips. CCI Blazer jammed every second shot, these things have bits of wax all over them... I don't think I'll try these anymore. Remington Thunderbolts were the best of the bunch (feeding wise), I was able to load 15 and not have a single issue. I didn't try anything higher than 15 rounds yet (on any ammo).

From what I've experienced today, and after comparing both my mags to my factory ruger 10rnd - it seems the spring is too strong, and the followers angle might be too steep. Here is a comparison photo, I scaled each mag to be approximately all the same size. All the mags are loaded with their max capacity, using remington thunderbolts.
Notice how much more steep of an angle the battledyne's are at? One BD mag more so than the other. (Red line showing the max bullet height angle, blue line showing where the factory ruger 10rnd bullet sits).

9gqWIGE.jpg


Battledyne mag1 close up / Battledyne mag 2 close up / Ruger 10rnd close up

I'm going to load the BD mags up again with 25rnds and leave them for a few more days to try and weaken the spring a bit. If bullets still sit at a high angle, maybe one of these mods might help?

#1 - What are peoples thoughts on clipping a sprial or two from the battledyne mag spring? I think the strong spring is creating too much tension after approx. 10 rounds loaded in, and causing feeding issues, possible also the reason bullets are getting crunched on the side by the bolt.

#2 - The other option is maybe sanding down the angle of the feeding ramp orange plastic piece?

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Radman,

I've had these mags for about 2 weeks now, and I've always left them loaded at maximum capacity after visiting the range to hopefully reduce spring tension. With this in mind, I couldn't notice any discernible difference between my first outing and second regarding spring tension. To comment on loading beyond 15 rounds, I would agree that it becomes noticeably more stiff, but I don't find them difficult to load to 25 rounds. I would also note that loading my butler creek, and rugers, require much less pressure.

RadMan said:
norrish,

Have you found the mag spring loosening up at all having put that many rounds through? I'm finding after about 12 to 15 rounds they get to be a real b!tch to load up to 25.

And yes, before anyone chimes in, I'll lube the mags and see if that helps as well.
Click to expand...
 
Bowzy,

My battledyne's have a very similar bullet angle to your pictures. I've only really been shooting CCI Blazer's with the odd occasion of Federals (while averaging 2-3 high angle failure to feeds per mag).

One thing I didn't mention in my last post (I forgot) was that I observed small shavings of lead from each bullet. These were found below the barrel. After further examination it was clear the bullets weren't feeding directly into the barrel which would intermittently cause the action to not close properly.

I would be curious about trying to modify the feedramp, or the spring -- mainly because I don't want to void my warranty incase I need to send them back to HiCal for warranty.

My gut tells me that the feed angle is too high and not the spring tension.
 
I am sorry I have to disagree with the whole idea of breakin, lubrication ect ect ect. If I remember this all sounds familar to the ProMag AA922-A2 mags that came with the Maurader/Nomad stocks. If I can use other 25 round mags like Butler Creek and they basically run great out of the box, then it is a concern with BD and promag mags. Everybody has to remember this is rimfire and concerns do arise from ammo but I am not sold on BD or Promag as consistant running magazines.
 
I've observed the same thing you have regarding both the angle of the round and the round sticking out above the feed lips. As well, when manually pushing the round forward out of the lips (as if the bolt was doing so) I've noticed that the round's nose swings noticeably to the right until disengaged from the mag. Kinda like the round goes through a "corkscrew" motion. The BX-1 does the same thing, but MUCH more subtlety. Combined with the high angle , I can understand why some of us are encountering this issue.

Regarding your thoughts (my inexperienced 2 cents):

#1 - The spring is a simple coil, not constant force. I find the strength of the spring light for the 1st 5 rounds, good for the next 10 and gets worse with every round after that. If one shortens the spring, the follower may not be strong enough for the last couple of shots. Also, I'm not sure that the spring force is the issue.

#2 - I'm not sure that the feed ramp is the key problem with the high angle rounds. My Butler Creeks have a relatively high angle but unlike the Battledynes feed straight into the chamber. Either way, the feed ramp alone doesn't seem to dictate angle. One might also have to make adjust the feed lips where they contact the top of the round, at the mid and rear points. And that's just to adjust the angle. Then you would probably also have to make adjustments to the feed lips where they contact the right side of the round to reduce that "corkscrew" motion I was referring to.

All in all this seems like a lot of work and $ into products and ammunition to lubricate and "break-in" these mags. Seems kinda wrong to me to put the onus on the customer to get these to work.

I'll give the old college try at the range this week, but if I can't get reliable performance during that session I'm calling it toast.

Anyways, those are my thoughts.

bowzy said:
9gqWIGE.jpg


Battledyne mag1 close up / Battledyne mag 2 close up / Ruger 10rnd close up

I'm going to load the BD mags up again with 25rnds and leave them for a few more days to try and weaken the spring a bit. If bullets still sit at a high angle, maybe one of these mods might help?

#1 - What are peoples thoughts on clipping a sprial or two from the battledyne mag spring? I think the strong spring is creating too much tension after approx. 10 rounds loaded in, and causing feeding issues, possible also the reason bullets are getting crunched on the side by the bolt.

#2 - The other option is maybe sanding down the angle of the feeding ramp orange plastic piece?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
@norrish

Thanks!

@bjs7293

Agreed. I was hoping to indulge my inner warrior with an SR-22 but only if I could get RELIABLE mags that looked the part. These Battledynes were my last hope... let's just say the dream is dying... ;)
 
norrish said:
Bowzy,
I would be curious about trying to modify the feedramp, or the spring -- mainly because I don't want to void my warranty incase I need to send them back to HiCal for warranty.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree... I wasn't at the stage where I was planning to do that yet - more just thinking out loud :)

I'd be curious to see some pictures of what the bullets look like sitting in mags that are running fine for people.
 
bowzy said:
I was able to goto the indoor range tonight and do a few more tests. Overall it was a better result than the first go with the Battledyne mags. Still needs work though.

I can't do rapid fire at the indoor, so each shot had about a 3 second pause between. I had previously put 25rnds in each mag and left them in for 48hrs to try and weaken the spring. I also got some FrogLube and took a q-tip and coated the inside where bullets are fed and the follower. Tried out CCI Minimag, CCI AR Tactical bulk, CCI Blazer bulk and Remington Thunderbolt. Minimags ran great, but after I loaded more than 10 rounds I would get high feed jams. CCI AR Tactical jammed twice out of 10 rounds, these rounds are a bit waxy on the tips. CCI Blazer jammed every second shot, these things have bits of wax all over them... I don't think I'll try these anymore. Remington Thunderbolts were the best of the bunch (feeding wise), I was able to load 15 and not have a single issue. I didn't try anything higher than 15 rounds yet (on any ammo).

From what I've experienced today, and after comparing both my mags to my factory ruger 10rnd - it seems the spring is too strong, and the followers angle might be too steep. Here is a comparison photo, I scaled each mag to be approximately all the same size. All the mags are loaded with their max capacity, using remington thunderbolts.
Notice how much more steep of an angle the battledyne's are at? One BD mag more so than the other. (Red line showing the max bullet height angle, blue line showing where the factory ruger 10rnd bullet sits).

9gqWIGE.jpg


Battledyne mag1 close up / Battledyne mag 2 close up / Ruger 10rnd close up

I'm going to load the BD mags up again with 25rnds and leave them for a few more days to try and weaken the spring a bit. If bullets still sit at a high angle, maybe one of these mods might help?

#1 - What are peoples thoughts on clipping a sprial or two from the battledyne mag spring? I think the strong spring is creating too much tension after approx. 10 rounds loaded in, and causing feeding issues, possible also the reason bullets are getting crunched on the side by the bolt.

#2 - The other option is maybe sanding down the angle of the feeding ramp orange plastic piece?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I had/have the exact same prob with my TI25 mags. The angle of the round is like the BD as compared to the factory Ruger mag. One TI25 mag wrks great, one was misfeeding constantly. I searched the Internet and a guy advocated sanding down the follower. So, I sanded it down on the malfunctioning mag to match the Ruger mag's feed angle. It improved the function, but it still only works well with a max of about 18 rnds and the last round ALWAYS misfeeds. My conclusion: all aftermarket hi cap mags are a gamble. Some are great, some suck. BTW, this goes for the 4 butler creek mags I've owned as well. If you want true reliability and lots of rounds at the magwell, then buy 3 factory 10 rounders and a tri-mag adapter.
 
Well... back from the range... my news isn't good.

I went out there with:

1x Ruger BX-1 with CCI SV
1x Butler Creek Steel Lip 25rnd with CCI SV
2x Battledynes with CCI SV (One lubed with Eezox, the other not lubed)
2x Battledunes with Win555 (Lubed, one with CanTire silicon spray, the other G96)

Here is how the session went (in order)

a. I began the session by firing off the BX-1 and Butler Creek mags (rapid fire bursts). Flawless.

b. I fired 100 rounds of Win555 through one of the Battledynes. No love. 40% failure rate. Had the same experience bowzy described HERE.

c. I fired the contents of the 3 remaining Battledynes. Exact same performance and failure rate (35-45%).

d. Boresnaked the barrel.

e. Tested the BX-1 and BC mags again, this time with Win555, flawless (BC was full sustained rapid fire, all 25 rounds).

f. Ran another 100 rounds of Win555 through the original Battledyne (now total round count through this mag is 200), same failure rate (40%).

g. Finished the session by again testing the Ruger and BC mags with Win555, again flawless performance.


Needless to say I'm disappointed. I really wanted these mags to work. I think they look AWESOME. But in my rifle they simply don't function properly. I've tried the 2 models of ammo that shoot most accurately and reliably in my rifle, I've tried 3 types of lubricant and tried to break one of the mags in. After 200 rounds it showed zero sign of wanting to improve. After that I wasn't going to spend more time and more ammo chasing the dream.

She's toast for me. I'll be emailing Hical in the next couple of days to arrange RMA.
 
I was one of the first people to send in an email to preorder@hical.ca after the original pre-order list for these mags was "lost";and I haven't heard a squeek from Hical about when my 5 mag pre-order.

Not sure what's going on, but it doesn't look like there's a lot of information forthcoming.
 
RadMan said:
Well... back from the range... my news isn't good.
Click to expand...

Well I can't say that my "range test" was as comprehensive as this.

I initially acquired 2 BD mags. In manual cycle tests one worked fine. The other was 100% fail.

I tried fiddling around with the faulty mag to see if it could be fixed with a simple modification.

Came dangerously close to destroying the mag in the process.

What I discovered was that the whole mag assembly (including the steel lips) is glued together. In trying to determine the alignment issue with the lips I actually split the case open. That is when I was able to see how the lips were installed. They are just glued into place. Which is not problematic in itself but in my case it was evident that an excessive amount of glue was used and actually forced the feed lips slightly to the left. This seemed to explain why the rounds jammed into the left side of the chamber in my manual cycle tests.

I stopped tinkering at that point. To try to realign the feed lips would probably break the mag housing beyond repair. I reassembled the mag case and secured it with tape.

Manual cycle tests improved after that but it was still only about 50%.

So that mag...tape and all got returned to Hical. Dave assured me that he would replace it on his next shipment.

So yesterday I went to the range with the "good" mag for a live fire test. It wasn't a comprehensive test. I used cheapo bulk Federal ammo and I didn't load the mag to full capacity. But it worked fine in 2 different 1022's.

It seems a little "hit and miss". It is obvious that quality control is an issue. Something as simple as too much glue can potentially be the difference between success and failure. And nobody wants to shell out $50 on a mag that might require a hour or 2 of testing and modification. (especially when the $20 factory mags work flawlessly).

That being said, Hical has been very accommodating in the process. Dave told me to go ahead and hack away at it if I wanted to and send back the pieces if it didn't work :)

The time and fussing involved with testing, modifying and ultimately returning a faulty product...? That is the price we all pay for trying something different.
 
I sanded a bit off the top near the front of the follower on one of my mags, going to goto the range tomorrow and see if it helped. It looks closer to the factory 10rnd mag angle now. I'll do a comparison between the non modded one. Depending how it goes, I might clip a ring or two off the spring if I feel its pushing the bullets too hard
 
I just received my Battledyne and like everyone has mentioned the looks are amazing. When comparing the feed angle in the pics here and mine, my mag more closely resembles the factory ruger mags. I will update everyone when I actually get to shoot them but I'm hoping I got one of the good ones.

It does wobble a little in my ATI frame, but if it fires properly I'll consider myself lucky.
 
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