BC 2013 provincial precision rile championship

Ed tell me this then, why are you telling folks on a one on one basis that they cannot use ATRS rifles then, that fellow has posted here I think and there are more,
Be careful of what you wish for,

Ed you just want to blame others for your lack of brains, that is why guys are not attending, you should have stated it when you started the thread instead of trying to lie now about ATRS stuff now suddenly being legal, perhaps an apology to the guy or guys that have asked you personally and you have told them to stay away as you will not let them compete with ATRS stuff

I for one am not coming and hope you get your proverbial ass sued off, you quite frankly deserve it

Jefferson
 
Hello Jefferson,

Hor#### never happened !! If someone chose to have selective hearing I can not be held accountable for his leap , if when I said that an ATR fixed break couldn't be used he chose to think that all ATR rifles what can I do about that,I never said it full stop if someone is embelishing a story to garner favor with rick i cant control that either ,never mind with your insults pal,
It is obvious that it is you with an agenda to turn this into some tar pit !I responded to a thread at that time you and whomever choose to read as you will into it carry on with your wounded duck horse#### , you choose to pencil in ATR not I , as far as I am concerned I am done with this topic and you and your cohorts
I will not play your games or add anything to perpetuate this garbage , I will not respond to this topic in the future .

Ed
 
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I can't attend this year but based on previous years, when I have been there, I would suggest that if anyone is thinking of shooting this event they go ahead and do it, it is a great event and likely the best one in the country.
 
kungfushurfu said:
Soooo.. fellows shooting a rifle built by Alberta Tactical Rifle can now compete with them as their brakes come installed and are not removable???????????????
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Ed your reply to 1 of my clients is attached to refresh your memory along with your reply and reasoning or lack there of.

"I absolutely knew that Question would be asked ....NO.. They can not ...BUT WHY NOT ?.... Where does it stop !!! It then opens the door for Every custom maker that can install a break,to then swamp us with breaks, everybody, will feel that if they do not have a break that then they are at a disadvantage and start an equipment race !!! which then increases liability issues with CF range"

THIS although not stating ATRS directly was a direct shot at me and you know it. Otherwise why would you have put this in your response.
" Just because a person has a manufacturing license it does not mean that person supplies firearms to police or qualifies as a" factory "I have on several occasions been told that " we build precision rifles for law enforcement " only to research that claim and find out it was total fiction "

Also YOU told not only me but also 1 of my employees at the last shoot that we did attend, that we could not compete with our rifles as equipped with brakes on them, due to the fact that you felt we were not really a legitimate manufacturer. YOU claimed that only the likes of Savage (at that time they had the only production rifle with a brake on it" were allowed. When I countered that then it would ok to run a can that is offered in our LE weapons system, you claimed that only a LE official could shoot with 1. Your loss of memory on this can be refreshed I am sure as there were several of us in attendance when this along with another issue in question was addressed by you. I am sure if need be they can be counted on to back up this claim.

FYI ALL brakes can be removed as ALL of them are threaded onto the end of the barrel. This includes brakes on Savage, Remington and PGW rifles as we have replaced brakes on all of these brands at some point in the last year or 2.
 
So at the end of the day we still have no definitive answer as to whether IF someone comes to this shoot with an ATRS built rifle with 1 of our "factory installed" brakes on it, WILL THEY BE ALLOWED TO SHOOT IT?
 
Hello Rick,

This is my last and final position on this topic, if your rifles are supplied stock/ standard with installed breaks(removable or not) -YES same as Savage rifles,and recently PGW,Remington and others,if you supplly breaks as an option / accessorie then NO ,your rifle can not be employed with an OPTIONAL break,however remove the break and your rifle is fine to compete just the same as a Sako trg22,orAI AWP this has always been the position of this match , the ONLY thing that has changed re this policy is that
PGW breaks now come STANDARD on PGW rifles and as such qualify to be shot with break , and by extension ANY rifles manufacture That comes similarly equipped ,and that can be or are supplied to LE or military WITHOUT exception that includes ATRS !!!!!!!, what I am trying to prevent is someone unqualified/incompetent with a lathe with a manufacturing license or NOT,from producing rifles that get used at the match and are potentially unsafe and makes a liability issues a concern for the match director,the BCRA,the CF ( as we are using CF range).

By making a qualifying statement factory supplied to LE I am imposing a filter of sorts in that LE and military are very discerning ,about the equipment they employ ,And if a rifles has been purchased by either entity for their use then a "selection process" if you will has been conducted and As such the rifles being considered if purchased and employed by them then the rifle has in essence passed a QC / good to go acceptance and as such relieves the stress felt by match organizers re safety ,and as spin off helps to prevent to a greater or lesser degree an "Arms Race/GAMEING frenzy" by weeding out people that have not had their rifles considered for use by either group ,nothing prevents a competitor from obtaining rifles as specified above this is as plain and as simple as I can make this issue ,

If And or how LE or Millitary employ these rifles, with break or removing break and adding suppressor ,is not for me to decide ,and if
The Military or LE , attends the match and chooses to shoot with a suppressor( start with can Finnish with can) as Some would and do operationally , again not for me to decide ,if they have a rifle with a break and choose to shoot that same rifle with break installed if for no other reason then they want to protect the threads on their rifles as they are not employing suppressor , again not for me to decide or dictate the tactics they employ or how and with what equipment they zero their rifles for employment - with break ,without break,with suppressor ,without suppressor .

That is as straight forward an explanation as I can make , it is not open for debate and if you find this unacceptable ,that's unfortunate ,as this is the last time I will disscus this topic ,

Ed Begg
BCRA precision rifle Director
604-807-9578
 
ED BEGG said:
Hello Rick,

This is my last and final position on this topic, if your rifles are supplied stock/ standard with installed breaks(removable or not) -YES same as Savage rifles,and recently PGW,Remington and others,if you supplly breaks as an option / accessorie then NO ,your rifle can not be employed with an OPTIONAL break,however remove the break and your rifle is fine to compete just the same as a Sako trg22,orAI AWP this has always been the position of this match , the ONLY thing that has changed re this policy is that
PGW breaks now come STANDARD on PGW rifles and as such qualify to be shot with break , and by extension ANY rifles manufacture That comes similarly equipped ,and that can be or are supplied to LE or military WITHOUT exception that includes ATRS !!!!!!!, what I am trying to prevent is someone unqualified/incompetent with a lathe with a manufacturing license or NOT,from producing rifles that get used at the match and are potentially unsafe and makes a liability issues a concern for the match director,the BCRA,the CF ( as we are using CF range).

By making a qualifying statement factory supplied to LE I am imposing a filter of sorts in that LE and military are very discerning ,about the equipment they employ ,And if a rifles has been purchased by either entity for their use then a "selection process" if you will has been conducted and As such the rifles being considered if purchased and employed by them then the rifle has in essence passed a QC / good to go acceptance and as such relieves the stress felt by match organizers re safety ,and as spin off helps to prevent to a greater or lesser degree an "Arms Race/GAMEING frenzy" by weeding out people that have not had their rifles considered for use by either group ,nothing prevents a competitor from obtaining rifles as specified above this is as plain and as simple as I can make this issue ,

If And or how LE or Millitary employ these rifles, with break or removing break and adding suppressor ,is not for me to decide ,and if
The Military or LE , attends the match and chooses to shoot with a suppressor( start with can Finnish with can) as Some would and do operationally , again not for me to decide ,if they have a rifle with a break and choose to shoot that same rifle with break installed if for no other reason then they want to protect the threads on their rifles as they are not employing suppressor , again not for me to decide or dictate the tactics they employ or how and with what equipment they zero their rifles for employment - with break ,without break,with suppressor ,without suppressor .

That is as straight forward an explanation as I can make , it is not open for debate and if you find this unacceptable ,that's unfortunate ,as this is the last time I will disscus this topic ,

Ed Begg
BCRA precision rifle Director
604-807-9578
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Thank you for the clarification at least now we know where we stand.
 
Wow what a lot if bluster and horsesheit. As a director of a match certain rules have to be enacted to both keep things safe AND prevent the arms race that's likely to happen if anything is allowed. What those rules are is completely up to the director. If you don't like the rules then please do one of the following.
1. Attempt to communicate and clarify and/or change the rules.
2. Don't attend the match.

In the end....lighten up Francis.
 
Longshot said:
Wow what a lot if bluster and horsesheit. As a director of a match certain rules have to be enacted to both keep things safe AND prevent the arms race that's likely to happen if anything is allowed. What those rules are is completely up to the director. If you don't like the rules then please do one of the following.
1. Attempt to communicate and clarify and/or change the rules.
2. Don't attend the match.

In the end....lighten up Francis.
Click to expand...


It is more a matter of having rules posted that are totally transparent that create a level playing field being fairly applied.
To state that brand x can have some feature and that brand y can not have that same feature is not a level playing field.

I TOTALLY understand the gaming bit and frankly believe that in a competition where a uniform firing line is employed like at the Vokes range , brakes should NOT be allowed at all by anyone.

The question was asked by someone else in this thread about our brand of rifle being allowed to shoot after several years of our brand being denied, many posts later, we finally now have an answer.
 
I know you guys (BCRA organizers) are implementing rules that seem to limit the so called 'arms race', but unfortunately by creating a divergence in allowable & non-allowable, you are actually feeding it (despite whether the advantage is real for some or perceived).
As a competitor, one may be inclined to now source a rifle with a factory brake, as opposed to using what they have on hand - a stock TRG/R700, or whatever.
Obviously you can't please everyone and the rules are yours, but consider that line of thinking.
 
Rick,

Your brand was NEVER denied!!,the rules were posted on website for years and disscussed several times over the years , and in print as every competitor is given course of fire and rules at check in/ registration .Your breaks ONLY were not allowed because they were not standard equipped ,this policy / rule has been in place for years prior to this post,with your rifles or ANYONE else's for that matter That doesn't supply their rifles with breaks as standard equipment , you shot our match in past years With your rifles -they were not denied just the breaks ..... moving on nothing left to say on this topic

Ed
 
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Hello Beltfood,

Yes I do follow your train of thought ,and have actually considered it myself ,short of banning brakes all together for everybody
Including military and LE ( strongly leaning this way for next year and so on) I thought the current rule would be ,could be a compromise ,thank you for your post

Regards
Ed
 
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