Swiss Arms Over The Beach Shooting UPDATE, Final Results and Conclusions Post #108
- Thread starter Steve Janes
- Start date
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
There is more than one source for this common knowledge.
As I said before, why do you think companies keep coming out with new and improved STANAG mags with and anti-tilt followers and different funky colored followers???? Come to think of it, if STANAG mags are so awesome, why did MAGPUL even design the PMAG in the first place???? I mean the existing STANAG mags were working just fine according to you guys, so why is the PMAG so popular??? Because of the inherent flaws found in STANAG mags. I don't just make this stuff up as I go along ye know! Take it or leave it but it is what it is.
Because the magazines were originally designed to be disposable items rarely if ever used more than a few times, they have been trying to "fix" them without changing the general design since the beginning.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/16/new-us-army-m16-tan-magazine/
New US Army M16 “Tan” Magazine
I first mentioned the new “Tan” M16/M4 magazine back in June.
The Program Executive Office (PEO) Soldier agency has just blogged about it …
“With the improved magazines, we’re taking weapons reliability up another notch,” said LTC Chris Lehner, Product Manager Individual Weapons. “By incorporating a heavier, more corrosion resistant spring, along with a new follower design that does not tilt inside the casing, our engineers were able to develop a magazine that presents a round to the weapon with even greater stability. Increased magazine reliability results in overall improved weapon system performance.”
…
“Soldiers can remember it like this: ‘Tan – is the plan. Green – start to lean. Black – take it back,’” said LTC Lehner. “While the improved magazines increase reliability to an even greater degree, the new magazines by no means reduce the importance of Soldiers keeping their weapons clean and lubricated appropriately for the environment. Also, Soldiers must be proficient on conducting immediate action (SPORTS) if their weapon has a stoppage.”
The Army has also developed a nifty tool to check if the feed lips are worn out. It is kind of a no-go gauge for magazines. If this does not already exist for civilians or law enforcement, I imagine it would be a popular accessory.
A lot of people don't get why I felt I had to do it. Some people call me a crazy SOB, well guess what, I'm a crazy SOB!!!! I work hard for my money, so I should spend it on whatever I want, no matter how crazy someone else thinks it is.
And as far as buying used, I paid $2800 for the rifle, you can buy a new one for $3800(with taxes and shipping), you decide
I would never sell a rifle that's been through what this one has (At least not without replacing key parts). I've shot this one far too much anyway, it's got over 6000, maybe even close to 7000 rounds through it now. Plus it's the only one I have left. It stays with me forever, I even ordered a spare complete bolt from Switzerland with a matching serial number, this way I have a spare for when on courses (I had an issues on a course once with a broken extractor spring, rifle didn't go down, I finished the course, but it was close). A new barrel is in the works someday soon too, I regret selling my 1 in 10" Twist, so will switch back to that instead of a 1 in 7" twist.
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Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
There were 2 other people on scene with a medical briefing for all before shooting began.
While it might work, its extremely bad for your rifle. They're a great chance you but ring bulge in your barrel. HK tech told us that it can be done with the 416, but if you do, you'll have to change the barrel afterward, it was a SEAL demand that it shoots after getting out of water, the bulging of the barrel is viable for them. Water will want to pass over your bullet in the barrel and since it can be compressed, it will push on the barrel bulging it. Over the beach testing is a "destructive" test, its does'nt need to blow up the rifle to be destructive, just use it prematurely. Don't be suprise if your velocity and accuracy s gone down. I would never do this with any of my firearms
In the testing done by Swiss arms when they do submersion tests don't they say they drain the barrel first?
I'll have to read through it again.
I know you said earlier that this rifle is never going to be sold but I know from my personal experience that firearms I've said the same about have ended up traded or sold to pay for the next shiny thing that caught my eye. I would hope if that ever happens that you (and anyone else that exposes their rifle to this type of treatment) would have the decency to tell any prospective buyer that it has been done.
I know that I would not buy a rifle that has been through this and I would be extremely p!ssed off if I paid $3000 for a used rifle that had been treated this way.
I personally don't see the point in doing these types of things to your rifle but if your going to do it keep taking video. I enjoy watching and seeing just how much one of these can go through.
Perhaps when you do finally find something that it can't withstand and you ruin it the rest of us can chip in $10 or $20 each to help you replace it so you can keep making videos.
Thumbs up for having a couple people with you to help in case of catastrophic failure.
I'll have to read through it again.
I know you said earlier that this rifle is never going to be sold but I know from my personal experience that firearms I've said the same about have ended up traded or sold to pay for the next shiny thing that caught my eye. I would hope if that ever happens that you (and anyone else that exposes their rifle to this type of treatment) would have the decency to tell any prospective buyer that it has been done.
I know that I would not buy a rifle that has been through this and I would be extremely p!ssed off if I paid $3000 for a used rifle that had been treated this way.
I personally don't see the point in doing these types of things to your rifle but if your going to do it keep taking video. I enjoy watching and seeing just how much one of these can go through.
Perhaps when you do finally find something that it can't withstand and you ruin it the rest of us can chip in $10 or $20 each to help you replace it so you can keep making videos.
Thumbs up for having a couple people with you to help in case of catastrophic failure.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
I hear where your coming from but know that I have a standing reputation around here for telling people whats going on with my Swiss rifles. I had a Black Special that simply wouldn't function properly, it was sent to SAN and they gave me a complete new upper receiver, this finally fixed the problem. I had replaced the black special with a classic green while I waited and so when I got the black one back I decided to sell it, included a link to the thread discussing the rifles problems in my ad, and I explained to the buyer everything the rifle had been through, I also told him if his was un satisfied, he'd have a week to get his money back.
Now in reference what's written in bold, if I thought that was how it would go down, I would do some testing that would make most people cringe. I hesitate about putting sand and dirt inside the receiver and shooting it ye know
or maybe filling the receiver with snow and then shooting, so many ideas!!!One of the reasons I felt so comfortable doing this was my intent to change barrels soon anyway. My Classic Green currently has a 1in7" Twist barrel and I have not gotten the use out of it that I thought I would, plus I wish to shoot some lighter varmint loads this summer, that the 1 in 7" twist simply can't handle, and so I purchased a new 1 in 10" twist barrel a little while back and will be switching over to that one. In the process of changing the barrels, I am having the 1 in 7" twist examined by the gun smith to tell me if there is any damage that my eyes cannot see. At that point I will update the thread with new information. Either way the intent was to change barrels soon after this test.
I am also hoping the new 1in10" twist will have better luck stabilizing the cheapo Noinco ammo, some of you may remember the extreme yaw I was getting with Norc yellow box out of my 1 in 7" twist, I am also hoping the norc patterns a bit better at close range through this new barrel. We'll see....
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Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
I would never....I do not intend too "Get Rid" of it. I will keep the 1 in 7" twist barrel, and if I ever want to use one, I'll have one. The process of switching them over is pretty straight forward for Markus, he has it finished the same day he receives it in the mail.
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- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
What pray tell is the point to a 1/7 twist barrel? It was designed for the really long NATO SS110 tracer bullets, with any regular jacketed bullet it is pretty much pointless. Even the USAMU use 1/8 or 1/7.7 twist and that's for shooting at 1,000 yards or something stupid with 90gr bullets.
- Location
- Canada, west
1-7 twist are the most versitile twist rate for 223s, you can shoot 36gr varmit grenades to 77gr pills, love my 1-7 twist 223s, why limit yourself when you have the option not to...
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
While a 1 in 7" twist is very versatile, it certainly isn't the optimal twist rate for those who are choosing to shoot lighter profile bullets. In my experience, a 1 in 7" twist will NOT give consistently accurate results with anything lighter than 55gr ammunition.
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- Location
- Canada, west
I have a 40gr amax load that shoots like a house on fire from my 1-7s. YMMV mind you 69gr loads shoot much better.
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Not to derail the thread but that's why you check a persons thread and post history in doing deals on the EE. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've been offered and busted people in, almost like they forget their post history is a few clicks away.
Secondly although I'm not the purchaser of his Black Special I can vouch for Steve as I remember the ad, he was very up front in his EE ad on his rifle. He just got it back on warranty with a new upper and sold it for a deep discount, great deal for whoever bought the rifle.
Steve runs his rifles hard, and he's honest about it. Doesn't claim to have safe queens or "200 rounds fired" out of a rifle that is bordering 10K
.I wish you luck, but I don't think a change in twist rate is going to help with the case of undersized projectiles. Tell us how this turns out
.Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
I wish you luck, but I don't think a change in twist rate is going to help with the case of undersized projectiles. Tell us how this turns out
I also, HIGHLY doubt it will make any difference in that regard, but we'll see, any change is better than what the norc was doing out of the 1 in 7" twist.
Does anyone know of anyone that could build a 1:8 barrel for one of these? I've had .223 rifles with 1:7, 1:8, and 1:9 and may favorite by far was 20" AR with 1:8 and Wylde chamber. It shot everything well.
I don't know why manufacturers put 1:7 in a semi auto battle rifle since the majority of ammo used is under 70gr. Most mags are too short to hold the 77gr+ bullets loaded out close to the lands. That being said I do have some 77gr match ammo and a couple other high end 60+gr to try in mine when it shows up.
I'm waiting for my classic green in the mail, it's a newer flat top version and haven't been able to find much info about the gas system, can someone please give a quick explanation of the adjustment and if you ever actually need to play with it? I've read it has 3 positions but there was no info about what the settings did.
I'm hoping it comes with the manual.
Thanks.
I don't know why manufacturers put 1:7 in a semi auto battle rifle since the majority of ammo used is under 70gr. Most mags are too short to hold the 77gr+ bullets loaded out close to the lands. That being said I do have some 77gr match ammo and a couple other high end 60+gr to try in mine when it shows up.
I'm waiting for my classic green in the mail, it's a newer flat top version and haven't been able to find much info about the gas system, can someone please give a quick explanation of the adjustment and if you ever actually need to play with it? I've read it has 3 positions but there was no info about what the settings did.
I'm hoping it comes with the manual.
Thanks.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
There are several guys who have had SAN Carbine's done up with NR 18.6" Krieger barrels, I believe most have been 1in8" twist, one may have been 1in8.5"
The regular rifles gas valves have 2 positions
setting 1 for normal shooting
setting 2 for extreme fouling or ice build up
Unless you do some pretty crazy S**T with your rifle, you should never need to use setting 2, I've played with it few times, it increases recoil, but it isn't good to shoot like that for extended periods, even the manual states to put it back on setting 1, once it starts running again.
I had a Black Special that kept having malfunctions, it ran just fine when I put it on gas setting 2, that's the only time I ever needed it to keep the rifle going.
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