Picture of the day

[Dark Alley Dan]

That's a very interesting pic. FJ guys in Italy, maybe?

 

[Recce21]

No worries Fox, you know I catch your drift and we are on the same page.

That photo is SWEEEEEET.

We really need better emoticons on CGN... I can never really convey my sarcastic remarks as well as I would like...

While all sides perpetrated "war crimes" and had their hands dirty, one cannot ignore that in this instance the German state definitely initiated hostilities, and also had as one of its goals, the subjugation of what it considered the "lesser" races, and the extermination of an entire religious group no matter what their nationality or ethnicity (the Jews). All the while, on the whole (not all individual or unit level soldiers of course) it prosecuted these aims with brutal efficiency.

Make no mistake, I LOVE all German firearms, uniforms, gear, and the German culture and people themselves, but I cannot ignore that many German soldiers committed horrible crimes at the behest of their evil and tyrannical government. It would be disingenuous of me to not admit that the Allies were the "good guys".

Just think though... In 500 years, history will look at the crimes of the Nazis just like we look at the crimes of the Mongols.... Something to think about.

Now... BACK TO THE PICTURES!!

 

[RRCo.]

Here's a nice little series of photos: http://ww2today.com/2nd-june-1941-massacre-of-civilians-at-kondomari-crete

Nach Paris, nach Moskau, nach hause.

 

[Recce21]

RRCo. Your blind hate is palpable and disturbing.

I am guessing you are an old man with nothing left but hate to hold onto.

Keep proving the internet wrong in your eyes, your work is invaluable.

 

[Desert_Fox]

Here's a nice little series of photos: http://ww2today.com/2nd-june-1941-massacre-of-civilians-at-kondomari-crete

Nach Paris, nach Moskau, nach hause.

Cool pictures.

Thanks for the link, I had heard about that "aktion" before, but hadn't heard the German eye witness account and the photo series to go along with it.

I can see it from both sides though, the Germans being pissed at seeing their friends killed by the local populace, and wanting to get revenge on the presumed guilty parties. (who were definitely not in uniform, and thus according to the Geneva convention, were not accorded the protections of it). And I can also see it from the point of view of the local population who wanted to protect their families and homes from invading troops. This event at Kondomari definitely shows some of the worst horrors that war brings, and why I never wish to have my family experience anything like it. (I'm in no way agreeing with the executing of civilians in wartime, but were any of us put in any of those situations, who knows how we might act?)

We must remember that, while I am sure the Axis powers as well as the Soviets committed many of these types of executions, we all know that the Western Allies did these types of things too. I'm sure not quite at the frequency and scale of the "bad guys", but a ####ty deal nonetheless...

Let's maybe try to stay away from inflaming each other animosities, and try to have a distanced discussion of the pictures that are posted up on this thread. After all, a discussion of almost ANY picture from WW2 can bring up some heated opinions and festering old wounds.

I especially think this testimony from the war correspondent is quite an apt description for this whole event:

I asked Trebes, who was quite pale, whether he realized what he had done, and he replied that he had only executed the order of Hermann Goering, and avenged his dead comrades. A few days later he received the Knights Cross from Goering for his “braveness” in Crete.

Following the picture series is this last paragraph which follows:

The following day an even worse massacre was conducted in the village of Kandanos, where 180 civilians were killed, possibly by a squad also led by Horst Trebes. The village was razed to the ground. No photographs survive.

Truly, the real face of Totalen Krieg...

Still, thanks for the link. I always like learning real history. Cheers!

 

[RRCo.]

More FJ atrocities in Holland in 1940 and after: ht tp://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129645

For example:
Ypenburg may 10th 1940: FJ lined up Dutch POW on the road to Ypenburg Airfield. Used them as a shield against fire from Dutch defenders;(This happened on many places by Wehrmacht and SS troops).

Delft may 10th 1940: FJ captured 10 Dutch soldiers near Delft. During a Dutch counter attack(trying to free the Pow's) the FJ lined up the 10 Pow and shot them in the neck. 1 however was a litlte taller, was hit between his shoulders and didn't die.

Near Willemsdorp(Moerdijk/Dordrecht) may 10th 1940 FJ force a 16years old Dutch boy to approach a dutch bunker and tell the soldiers to surrender. (They put a MP to his belly).

May 10th 1940 Moerdijk FJ try to enter this small village. At the corner of the "Dorpsstraat" (villagestreat) they're stopped by 5 Dutch soldiers. Fj orders some Dutch POW-officers to order these soldiers to stop resisting or be shot at the spot. The Dutch POW-officers refuse to do so. 4 offiers and 2 seargents are shot by the FJ. Captain Marijnen, badly hurt, survived.

may 10th 1940 Lage Zwaluwe trainstation: FJ tell a POW--Dutch Lt. (plt.co. Lt. B.A.J. van Boxtel) to order his men to surrender. He refuses and is shot by the FJ.

May 11th 1940: The FJ "Waalhaven hero" Hauptmann Schulz near Dordrecht places 18 POw in a truck with a Dutch flag. The truck is ordered to drive to Amstelwijck. Many POW are forced to walk behind and aside the truck, wave their "hancky" and must shout: "Don't should, we're Dutch", while treathend by the FJ who aim their guns at the Dutch. While the Dutch approach Amstelwijck on the road on the dike, the FJ follow them 2 meters down the dike. Dutch defenders open fire, shooting all the men in the truck. Noticing Dutch shooting Dutch Batt. co. majot Ravelli orders his men to stop shooting, walks(with 4 officers and some soldiers) to the Dutch POW and is captured by FJ.
Hptm. Schulz now orders Ravelli to order is men to surrender. Ravelli refuses and has to join the order POW's, together with Lt. J.A. van Heyl and captain Wijers). The Dutch POW are forced to walk towards Krispijn(Dordrecht), used as a shield by the FJ(strength at that moment 1 comp.) At the first crosspoint Dutch defenders open fire. Schulz orders Ravelli to walk in front. Ravelli protests and asks Schulz if he's afraid without Ravelli. At that time Schulz probably knows he has gone to far. The Dutch are taken to a small POW camp near Willemsdorp. Ravelli keeps protesting about what happened and on may 14th 1940 is send to the German Division HQ at Rijsoord. There the German make a report and Hptm. Schulz has to make a statement to.

May 12th 1940 Dordrecht Balistraat(Balistreet) After fighting a wounded Dutch soldier stays behind.Civilians tried to helped him but are shot at by the FJ. A ambulance tries to help him. It is not allowed by the germans. While the germans help their own wounded the leave the Dutch soldier on the same spot for severall days untill he dies.

may 10th 1940 near Ypenburg. While his unit retreats a Dutch medic volunteers to stey behind and help the wounded. There are some wounded in a small building. The medic walks to FJ to notice them on the wounded and ask them not to shoot at the building. He's captured by the FJ, beaten badly and dies of his wounds some days later.

Need some more??

This is all long before any of the excuses they like to try and find for their behaviour. Same as the SS murdering the 90+ British in cold blood at Wormhoudt in 1940.

They exterminated several other villages on Crete, on direct orders from G.d.F.J. Kurt Student. Of course he was let off after three years in the slammer as he was ill. "Victor's justice" you know!

 

[RRCo.]

RRCo. Your blind hate is palpable and disturbing.

I am guessing you are an old man with nothing left but hate to hold onto.

Keep proving the internet wrong in your eyes, your work is invaluable.

I'm supposed to be on your ignore list remember? Your guesses are worth about as much as your knowledge of history.

For those who are interested read up on F.J. Regt. 6 in Italy shooting American Ranger prisoners. Same tactic as their kameraden were using in Holland in 1940.

Anyone see a pattern yet?

 

[Recce21]

You are on my ignore list but sometimes when you respond to folks, my curiosity is too much to handle.
I wanted to see how bad you were ###ing up this thread and once again, you take a simple picture and go on a self righteous rant.

Pattern? How about everytime you start pounding your "holier than thou" chest, I start posting pictures of civilians killed by the Allied civilian bombing campaign. Or the Tokyo fire bombing. Or Dresden or...or....see the pattern?

What about the Boer War and the camps set up by the British?

I simply say no ones hands are clean and that, as Desert_Fox rightly points out, there is no use in inflaming each others animosities which is what you do best troll.

Everyone who repeatedly posts massacre photos on this thread raise their hands.

Just you RRCo. with their hand up? Thought so.

I'm supposed to be on your ignore list remember? Your guesses are worth about as much as your knowledge of history.

For those who are interested read up on F.J. Regt. 6 in Italy shooting American Ranger prisoners. Same tactic as their kameraden were using in Holland in 1940.

Anyone see a pattern yet?

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Noise and bother, noise and bother. I remember when this was a picture thread.

Take it outside, you two. This is a class joint.

Willie McKnight of Calgary. Flew with Bader. Killed 21 January 1941 over France. I drove down McKNight boulevard in Calgary yesterday, and I never do that without thinking of him.

 

[vandoo66]

The pics above are of Heer Feldgendarmerie, not SS-Feldgendarmerie like in the SVT photo.

Was there really a difference?

 

[vandoo66]

We really need better emoticons on CGN... I can never really convey my sarcastic remarks as well as I would like...

While all sides perpetrated "war crimes" and had their hands dirty, one cannot ignore that in this instance the German state definitely initiated hostilities, and also had as one of its goals, the subjugation of what it considered the "lesser" races, and the extermination of an entire religious group no matter what their nationality or ethnicity (the Jews). All the while, on the whole (not all individual or unit level soldiers of course) it prosecuted these aims with brutal efficiency.

Make no mistake, I LOVE all German firearms, uniforms, gear, and the German culture and people themselves, but I cannot ignore that many German soldiers committed horrible crimes at the behest of their evil and tyrannical government. It would be disingenuous of me to not admit that the Allies were the "good guys".

Just think though... In 500 years, history will look at the crimes of the Nazis just like we look at the crimes of the Mongols.... Something to think about.

Now... BACK TO THE PICTURES!!

Sums it about all up...Yup

 

[jwhc]

Noise and bother, noise and bother. I remember when this was a picture thread.

Take it outside, you two. This is a class joint.

Willie McKnight of Calgary. Flew with Bader. Killed 21 January 1941 over France. I drove down McKNight boulevard in Calgary yesterday, and I never do that without thinking of him.

Here here !!! Thanks Dan

Cheers
Joe

 

[Recce21]

Rabble rabble

 

[moonshot5]

Can anyone identify these rifles and who the troops are?

 

[Recce21]

M1917. Not sure what troops though.

Can anyone identify these rifles and who the troops are?

 

[Desert_Fox]

Are those not American Doughboys with issue M1917's? Probably during WW1, possibly in France even?

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

How can one tell a P17 from a P14 in that pic? Educate me!

 

[Desert_Fox]

How can one tell a P17 from a P14 in that pic? Educate me!

Well truthfully, as you may know, one cannot tell the difference if they are using either the US Model 1917 .30, or the British Pattern 14 in .303 just by the pictures of the rifles themselves...

But I took an edumacated guesstimate which took into account that they are:

- American troops circa WW1.
- Issued US M1907 30-06 Cartridge belts.
- Wearing US issued M1917 Bayonet.

This leads me to believe they are holding Model 1917 rifles, and not borrowed Limey Pattern 14s.... but without looking at the receivers, none of us can be 100% sure...

 

[vandoo66]

U.S. GI head to toe. How ya gonna keep em down on the farm...after they've seen Paris?

Not even a hundred years ago WOW

 

[Desert_Fox]

U.S. GI head to toe. How ya gonna keep em down on the farm...after they've seen Paris?

Not even a hundred years ago WOW

So true.

A good book on the subject is: "Torchbearers of Democracy: African-American Soldiers in the World War I Era" (UNC Press, 2010)

by Chad Williams