lightest 330 gr load for 4570

Boomer said:
The problem you're having is that your chrony is reading the muzzle blast which moves ahead of the subsonic bullet. Set up a cardboard or plastic baffle in front of the chrony to stop the supersonic particles of powder, and you'll get a true velocity reading.
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I never thought of that. I was pretty close too it to. I'll grab some cardboard tomorrow and try again. Thank you
 
aaron v said:
Thank you. I'm only 5 years into this sport with zero experience with firearms before. In the past 6 months I've been playing with 44 mag reduced loads for rabbit hunting with great success. I really appreciate any experienced insight. My daughter will be thrilled that now she can shoot the new marlin too:) thanks again. Aaron
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Yes, some of my most memorable times in shooting was having two grandsons, cousins the same age, learning to shoot with a lightly loaded Marlin in 44 magnum with a Williams Foolproof peep sight.
We went from pellet guns in the basement, learning gun handling and safety, to the range with the 44.
I started with loads so light they produced no noticeable recoil. But they still made a good bang and put a large hole in the paper. The boys loved it. As a bonus the lubrication on the cast bullets created a smoke with a pleasant aroma.
I kept gradually increasing the load, until after two or three years, they were shooting full power loads and I don't think they ever noticed the increase in recoil!
One of the boys shot mostly offhand and he became an excellent off hand shooter.
During later sessions, to add interest, I placed a cardboard box about thirty yards down range. I told them to load three shells in the magazine and told them not to take the butt of the rifle from their shoulder when they were shooting.
When one was ready, I would say, "There's a bear coming for us, get him!"
No one felt happier than me, when the one boy who shot offhand, made a smaller group on the box than I did, and shot faster!
 
"...small game quieter rounds..." Small game and quiet don't exactly go together with .45-70. There is 300 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site listed under Trapdoor.
"...3.4cc scoop..." Throw it away and use a scale. The silly scoops can vary the charge plus or minus a full grain. Mind you, 14 grains of Trailboss is the starting load fora 300 grain cast Trapdoor load.
 
sunray said:
"...3.4cc scoop..." Throw it away and use a scale. The silly scoops can vary the charge plus or minus a full grain. Mind you, 14 grains of Trailboss is the starting load fora 300 grain cast Trapdoor load.
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If you use them right (tap each time until it settles to a consistent level, top it off, tap again, and you should have a consistent density) you can get the Lee scoops consistent to about 3-4% of each charge. I don't bother weighing most charges for cast bullets and just use scoops. Since I am always using them for light loads even going 5% over isn't dangerous in the least. I can shoot under 2" groups at 50yds using the scoops and cast bullets with iron sights. I can't notice a difference between scoops and weighing charges unless I am using a scoped rifle.

Also saying they can vary by plus or minus a full grain isn't really true. On a 50gr charge that's only 2%. On a 5gr charge that's 20% and actually isn't possible with the scoops. If you scoop and level without settling the powder the variance can be as much as 8% from highest to lowest in my experience. If you tap the scoop to settle I can get it down to 3-4% difference from highest to lowest. For 25-50yd plinking with cast bullets on iron sights that is good enough for me.

Of course if you use scoops to try to reach max charges you are playing in very dangerous ground. I only use them for lighter plinking loads and cast bullets.
 
sunray said:
"...small game quieter rounds..." Small game and quiet don't exactly go together with .45-70. There is 300 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site listed under Trapdoor.
"...3.4cc scoop..." Throw it away and use a scale. The silly scoops can vary the charge plus or minus a full grain. Mind you, 14 grains of Trailboss is the starting load fora 300 grain cast Trapdoor load.
Click to expand...

Interesting. My case volume measurements for the 400 and 405 grain bullets resulted in a 70% load of 14 grains of Trail Boss. It would appear to make no difference what caliber/rifle one is using when applying the generic recipe for starting loads in a rifle with Trail Boss. Interesting. As for the scoops...yes, throw them away. :)
 
A while back I gave a Lee Loader to a local guy who I had been loading for, but before I did, I firstly wanted to see how accurate the spoon measures could be, and secondly I wanted to see if he could actually get into trouble with them. The powder I had selected for him was IMR 3031, and chose a 2.8 cc spoon as the most appropriate for his purposes. First was to weigh 10 heaping spoons of powder. The average powder charge for those 10 measures was 37.9 grs, the extreme spread was .9 grs, the lightest charge was 37.6 grs and the heaviest was 38.5. The loading manual showed a range of 36-40 grs. The next test was 10 scoops of powder, and carding the top of the spoon off. The average was 34.7, with an extreme spread of .7 grs, the lightest being 34.5 and the heaviest being 35.2 grs. Moving up to the 3.1 cc spoon provided a carded average of 38.5 grs. While a scale provides all sorts of advantages for working up loads, and is more accurate if used correctly, the spoons won't get you into trouble, and the accuracy can be good enough for accurate shooting.
 
Exactly, re-read my post sunray and hold back commenting until you know the whole story. I rarely use scoops because I feel reloading piss poor ammo is a gross waste of time. The 3.4 was near min of what I came up with for a tb starting load and well under max. I weighed a number of charges and 14.5 was the average with minimal sd. Its a real time saver vs. a beam scale and good enough for short range plinking loads. Every other load I use gets weighed by hand, no exceptions.
 
sunray said:
"...small game quieter rounds..." Small game and quiet don't exactly go together with .45-70. There is 300 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site listed under Trapdoor.
"...3.4cc scoop..." Throw it away and use a scale. The silly scoops can vary the charge plus or minus a full grain. Mind you, 14 grains of Trailboss is the starting load fora 300 grain cast Trapdoor load.
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I beg to differ. Its quieter then my hmr was. I've been using a 44 mag rifle with 240 gr soft loads (750 fps +/-) and they punch a very clean hole through the rabbit and any small branches in the way. Much less bruising and they bleed out right away. I would compare the 44 to a 13" barreled 22. I like the idea of low recoil loads for the kids and plinking/small game.
 
H4831 said:
Yes, some of my most memorable times in shooting was having two grandsons, cousins the same age, learning to shoot with a lightly loaded Marlin in 44 magnum with a Williams Foolproof peep sight.
We went from pellet guns in the basement, learning gun handling and safety, to the range with the 44.
I started with loads so light they produced no noticeable recoil. But they still made a good bang and put a large hole in the paper. The boys loved it. As a bonus the lubrication on the cast bullets created a smoke with a pleasant aroma.
I kept gradually increasing the load, until after two or three years, they were shooting full power loads and I don't think they ever noticed the increase in recoil!
One of the boys shot mostly offhand and he became an excellent off hand shooter.
During later sessions, to add interest, I placed a cardboard box about thirty yards down range. I told them to load three shells in the magazine and told them not to take the butt of the rifle from their shoulder when they were shooting.
When one was ready, I would say, "There's a bear coming for us, get him!"
No one felt happier than me, when the one boy who shot offhand, made a smaller group on the box than I did, and shot faster!
Click to expand...

Some of my best father daughter time is now spent hunting. They really have a good time when we get to go for a nice quiet walk a.d learn thing along the way. Last rabbit my daughter (10) shot was at 40 yards! I didn't even see it until she shot it. She just kept pointing at it so I gave her the Ok to load and shoot. I have no "not smiling " hunting pics of them. They like fishing too:)
 
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