slothy, seems you are more interested in a good reliable gun, than the issue of home defense. just go try a bunhc and see what you like. if it's just going to sit in a drawer any gun will literally do. no one is making a real bad gun these days, and the chances of having to use are slim but climbing. you are thinking too much. just go get a gun. if you do t like it sell it and buy one you do. it's not that big of a deal. your neighbor likely has a glock, the next a python, the next an m&p the next a smith and wesson stubby and so on. none of them would be wrong. the longer you stay without a gun the more apparent danger you may be in, just get one.
CZ 75 or Glock 17 for home defense?
- Thread starter Slothy
- Start date
ambishooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southeastern Canuckstan
I have an 85C which is technically a 75 except for ambi controls and adj rear sight. G17 is a good pistol, lightweight and less maintenance. Win-win with either gun, both reliable. Just a matter of preference.
In a home invasion scenario, what calibre/gun you use or how fast you can draw your weapon is not important and will not be the determining factor if it comes down to a life and death situation.
How calm and bold you behave are the only two things you need to worry about.
Any modern pistols will work fine. People often get carried away by durability/reliability test results, but in reality you are not a LE agency or Military looking for a service pistol. Hence we don't need to worry about whether the pistol will have 1 failure every 20,000 rounds or 2 every 20,000 rounds and whether the piece will have the durability to withstand 50,000 rounds+
CZ 75 and Glock 17 are different(different frames, firing mechanism, etc) but they both get the job done have proven to be reliable and durable. So I would suggest you to try them both and find which one you like better before buying one.
Anyone saying one is more reliable than the other or one is more ergonomic is giving his/her opinion based on their "personal" experiences and your mileage may vary.
How calm and bold you behave are the only two things you need to worry about.
Any modern pistols will work fine. People often get carried away by durability/reliability test results, but in reality you are not a LE agency or Military looking for a service pistol. Hence we don't need to worry about whether the pistol will have 1 failure every 20,000 rounds or 2 every 20,000 rounds and whether the piece will have the durability to withstand 50,000 rounds+
CZ 75 and Glock 17 are different(different frames, firing mechanism, etc) but they both get the job done have proven to be reliable and durable. So I would suggest you to try them both and find which one you like better before buying one.
Anyone saying one is more reliable than the other or one is more ergonomic is giving his/her opinion based on their "personal" experiences and your mileage may vary.
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I would leave my CZ SP01, DPMS AR, Remy 7400(30-06), Remy 12 gauge, Savage 10, Ruger 10/22, (ok to many to list them all) all locked up, just cause im sure I couldnt get to any of them fast enough in the dark and locked away. But the hockey stick or ball bat in the corner of the room, (which ever one I feel around for first) and me knowing the lay out of my house, I think gives me the slightest edge if "buddy" shows up and makes his way up stairs. So Im betting on that I would lay him out on the floor with it, then in the basement we go, for a few weeks of fun.....
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Personally I have had too many reliability issues with the CZ 75 especially with factory magazines, I have also known a lot of other people to have reliability issues with the CZ's.
The Glock 17 on the other hand, my personal preference is a Gen 3, is stone cold reliable. In my opinion, if you are living in a place that home defense with a firearm is legal then reliability is going to be the most important factor to considered when choosing between these two pistols. If it doesn't go bang when you need it to then what is the point?
Second is ease of function under stress. If someone comes in your house to do you or your family harm and you have the Glock then all you have to do is pull the trigger, there is only one trigger pull and no safety to worry about. On the other hand, depending which CZ 75 you get and what condition you have the firearm stored by your bed, you will have to either contend with a safety or a double action first shot. You will have enough stress as it is so I suggest the Glock 17 again for this reason.
The Glock 17 on the other hand, my personal preference is a Gen 3, is stone cold reliable. In my opinion, if you are living in a place that home defense with a firearm is legal then reliability is going to be the most important factor to considered when choosing between these two pistols. If it doesn't go bang when you need it to then what is the point?
Second is ease of function under stress. If someone comes in your house to do you or your family harm and you have the Glock then all you have to do is pull the trigger, there is only one trigger pull and no safety to worry about. On the other hand, depending which CZ 75 you get and what condition you have the firearm stored by your bed, you will have to either contend with a safety or a double action first shot. You will have enough stress as it is so I suggest the Glock 17 again for this reason.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
CGN threads like this always make my head hurt. A lot of you guys need to do a lot of reading on the subject of home defense and then apply what you've learned to the Canadian context. 99.9% of all potential problems could be solved by ensuring it's not easy for an intruder to get into your home in the first place. Failing that, make sure you know all applicable laws before you make any decisions.
To answer the OP's question: I don't think you could really go wrong with either pistol series if you put in the time to learn how to use it. Buying one and putting a few rounds through it a year is not enough in this case. I would recommend multiple pistol courses and perhaps a low light course as well. Home defense with any firearm has serious legal and safety issues that need to be considered....so choose your course instructor carefully and make sure he covers those topics in depth.
To answer the OP's question: I don't think you could really go wrong with either pistol series if you put in the time to learn how to use it. Buying one and putting a few rounds through it a year is not enough in this case. I would recommend multiple pistol courses and perhaps a low light course as well. Home defense with any firearm has serious legal and safety issues that need to be considered....so choose your course instructor carefully and make sure he covers those topics in depth.
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A solid post sir. Relevant and valid points.
As for the posts regarding self defense it is entirely legal in canada and there are numerous cases of such where firearms were used.
Tdc
I think any modern pistol that has 100 rounds through it to ensure the ammo works and the gun functions, and is stored for home defence will never fail. I do think having any gun for self defence is a bad idea if you never use them to familiarize yourself to them. Might as well just take it out of the safe and hand it to the thief. Double action first shot is not a big deal at 5-10 ft.
Yes, I agree, double action first shot is not a big deal at 5 to 10 feet, especially if you train with it and you are shooting relaxed in a range. Under stress it can be a different story, law enforcement miss at those ranges with DAO guns and striker fired guns which have heavy pulls to mimic a DAO trigger such as the NY Trigger in Glocks.
For example, in 20 seconds of googling I came across this example right here where New York cops hit 9 bystanders.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/n...ice-near-empire-state-building-sues.html?_r=0
As far as you statement that "any modern pistol that has 100 rounds through it to ensure the ammo works and the gun functions, and is stored for home defense will never fail", I don't agree with that whatsoever. I have shot numerous pistols which have had malfunctions after they have already shot through the same ammunition with no issues. For example, I had a CZ 75b SP-01 tactical which shot perfectly the first time I took it out, I shot around 500 rounds the first time, the next time I took it out with the same ammo I had numerous malfunctions, mostly double feeds. I continued to shoot that pistol for about another 3000 rounds before I got rid of it, 90% of the time it shot reliably but I did have the odd malfunctions, again mostly double feeds.
I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through various Glock pistols in various conditions from indoor ranges to poring rain, to harsh desert environments and I can count all the malfunctions I have had on two hands and most of them were caused by myself from "limp wristing" under heavy sustained fire while moving. Some of these Glocks had basically no maintenance/cleaning/lubrication.
I have also had two high end 1911's which both fired 250 rounds the first time to the range with no issue. Both of them had about 3 to 5 malfunctions the next time I took them out and every time after while shooting about 200 to 300 rounds each range session. This was all using the same ammunition. If I was in the position of the OP, this could have cost me and/or my family our lives If I had been using these pistols for self defense and if I had the same thinking as you seeing as how they functioned perfectly the first time to the range.
Pietro Beretta
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Ontario (G.T.A.)
Yes indeed.
Glock 21 in .45 Auto with factory night sights, 4 magazines fully charged with Hornady 230 gr. JHP +P @ 950 fps....and a Streamlight M3X Tactical Illuminator with 120 Lumens of blinding white light.....the ULTIMATE setup....Hands Down.
I have fired tens of thousands of rounds through various models and generations of Glock pistols. I have found that the Glock is a reliable, accurate and simple combat pistol. To say that I adore Glock pistols would be accurate... I have shot a few hundred rounds through a CZ 75 and found it to be extremely ergonomic in my hand, accurate and reliable. In the end, you should choose a quality pistol, educate yourself on it's features and operation and then TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN in the application of lead onto target. If you've done this, then you will be fine with whatever pistol you decide to use. Good luck!
abbynormal
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- West Coast
Just can't improve on that - just can't!
I lived in North Carolina and had a CHP (it is called a CHP not a CCW in NC), and when I was there, here was my home defense: AR-15 with 2 30 round magazines, in condition 3 near the bed. CZ-75B with night sights, holstered, in the bed stand drawer in condition 1. The AR-15 would be the primary weapon (paradoxically, less over penetration through interior walls with an XM-193 round compared to a 9mm JHP). A weapon mounted light is highly advisable. No kids or teenagers in the house.
I would advise not staging guns around the house when you have teenager and their friends in the house. In my opinion, any self-defense firearms should be on or near your person (i.e. under your direct control at all times) I believe it is a felony to North Carolina to have a firearm stored in such a way that it is accessible to a minor.
Lastly, the North Carolina CHP course, in my opinion, doesn't not make anyone ready to wield a firearm effectively in a self-defense situation. Getting a CHP and doing nothing else is like buying a guitar and being able to plink out "Smoke on the Water". Just because you got a guitar doesn't mean you're a guitarist. If you want to become a responsible self-defense minded gun owner, please take the time and spend the money to get well trained. There are several good instructors in Central North Carolina. Here are a few I've studied with, and I can recommend:
http://defensiveconceptsnc.com/
http://concealedhandguncarry.com/1.html (be sure to take Chris' after deadly force legal seminar. It is absolutely invaluable).
http://tracearmory.com
Follow up with weekly range practice.
Join http://carolinashootersclub.com . Lots of good people and advice on that forum.
Good Luck!
I agree with a lot of what you are saying for sure. You can get a lemon with anything including handguns. Glock included, maybe just not as often as others, and 1911's after reading and learning on this forum, seem to be high maintenance. The comment of limp wristing under heavy sustained fire caused malfunctions is not that great of a thing either, I mean you or anybody could be under stress and panic and limp wrist while defending your home. I'm beginning to think a revolver is the way to go for self defence maybe?
Dang Glocks, to me they look ugly, and it was uncomfortable, but I did shoot a gen 4 good at the range!!!!
Yes, I agree with you, ugly as hell, also I much prefer the trigger and natural point of aim of other guns such as 1911's, Sig P series, CZ's etc., but Glocks are just so damn reliable and simple, both in design and function. They are like the AK of the pistol world. It is a love hate relationship for me, but if the SHTF, whether at home or overseas and I had all the pistols in the world lying in front of me, I would grab the third gen Glock 17.
Can you still buy gen 3's new?
