Vortex Razor HD 5-20X50 MRAD. Check the web site for all the reticle factors and subtensions.
Ffp
- Thread starter shredon
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Vortex Razor HD 5-20X50 MRAD. Check the web site for all the reticle factors and subtensions.
Absolutely but that's not unique to ffp scopes. The range finding ability of an ffp mildot scope really isn't that useful for precise long range shooting and within your MPBR it serves no purpose. Plus, you still need to confirm with a more accurate rangefinding device that you are actually within that MPBR.
I wasn't going to respond anymore to this thread but you've sucked me in .
this is how SFP scope with mil reticule works.
first of all the reticule does not change with magnification, so what that means is that the subtensions are only correct on one magnification setting usually the max power.
so lets say that my 300 wm is up 3 mils form my 100M zero to be dead on at 500M with my current load and climate data for that day.
if my scope is set at max power of lets say that is 14 then I am good to hold to the 3 mil hash mark as each hash mark is 1 mil and fire.
BUT if my scope is set to 7 my reticule is no longer measuring 1mil :1 hash mark it is now 2:1 so for every hash mark will now measure 2 mil i'd have to hold to the 1.5 hash mark.
the problem arise when you on 5.5 magnification or 8.675 magnification etc.
that is how SFP and mil or moa reticule combinations work.
FFP the reticule grows and shrinks with the magnification change and thus is always 1:1 is just hold to your d.o.p.e and fire.
So feel free to correct me if you STILL think I'm wrong.
if you do , please let me know what scope you are referring make/model to so I may research it's function.
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Considering this isn't the early years that argument is somewhat moot and truthfully, the mildot is not an overly reliable backup system at longer ranges in the hands of the average hunter or those not shooting at a six foot man. Truthfully, you can do the exact same ranging with a sfp scope anyhow.
There are much better reticle options with a sfp scope than a mildot....when I mentioned hashmarks earlier I thought you'd understand that I wasn't referencing sfp mildot reticles...hopefully that clears up your confusion. A sfp scope with a yardage indicated ballistic reticle is as fast as it gets.....period.
I don't dial anything with a sfp ballistic reticle. I range and put the appropriate hashmark on the target and squeeze the trigger. Nothing to dial, nothing to calculate.
unfortunately it does not, are you referring to the reticule types such as D.O.A. they to will change with magnification.
the whole point of having magnification is to use it, not to try to offset the the pit falls of SFP optics to "tune" the reticule to the load and never use or change the magnetization again. it's kinda like making a square wheel.
Why couldn't I ever change the magnification ?????? I can use whatever magnification I want on the primary reticle without zero changing...it's only on the secondary hashmarks where magnification is critical. If I'm using the secondary hashmarks I'm shooting a long ways and want high magnification anyhow...the wheel sounds pretty round to me.
so please enlighten me sheephunter:
the scope you use is a variable power one, correct?
it is SFP ,correct?
it has a ballistic drop type set of hashmarks ,correct?
once you find the load that actually works well enough with the hash marks do you change you magnification ever?
the scope you use is a variable power one, correct?
it is SFP ,correct?
it has a ballistic drop type set of hashmarks ,correct?
once you find the load that actually works well enough with the hash marks do you change you magnification ever?
I change magnification all the time...would kind of seem silly not to considering it's a variable scope.
so then you only shoot on max mag when using your hash marks, gotcha.
in the real world when shooting long ranges mirage is an issue and thus often you need to dial back the magnification so it doesn't obscure the target.
in a hunting application you may have been in close quarters ie: bush where the hash marks are not used and magnification is low then upon coming to an opening you may have a 500M opportunity and 1)forget to crank up the mag (math is then needed to determine holds) 2) fiddle with the mag and lose the opportunity . often time is of the essence.
none the less I'm done here, have fun with your SFP and ballistic drop reticule combo. that you have to shoot on max mag to use the hash-marks or be force to do math in order to use them properly..........
hope you have a great day!
hope you have a great day!
LOL...and I could forget to wear clean underwear and get in a car accident....I've done a fair bit of hunting in the "real" world and haven't experienced any of those issues yet.
I've never experienced mirage issues in a hunting situation...sub 612 yards anyhow. I've never forget to turn my magnification on a long-range shot and there is no math required. I just need to remember what the magnification needs to be set at. I still remember my telephone number so the magnification is easy but I could write in on the stock if my memory becomes an issue down the road. At 500 yards, if you don't have one second to turn a magnification ring, you definitely don't have time to make a shot at that distance. We aren't talking snap off the shoulder shots here. I'm not making a case for or against sfp scopes here...just trying to clear up some misinformation that was running rampant in this thread.
I've never experienced mirage issues in a hunting situation...sub 612 yards anyhow. I've never forget to turn my magnification on a long-range shot and there is no math required. I just need to remember what the magnification needs to be set at. I still remember my telephone number so the magnification is easy but I could write in on the stock if my memory becomes an issue down the road. At 500 yards, if you don't have one second to turn a magnification ring, you definitely don't have time to make a shot at that distance. We aren't talking snap off the shoulder shots here. I'm not making a case for or against sfp scopes here...just trying to clear up some misinformation that was running rampant in this thread.
LOL...there is zero math to do...how many times do I have to say that. The computer calculates my optimum magnification back home in the comfort of my office and if I ever change the load or move the scope to another rifle, the computer will calculate it again. The magnification is all I ever have to remember. The secondary hashmarks are yardage indicated so I simply use the appropriate one for the distance. To shoot 500 yards, I confirm my magnification and use the hashmark indicating 500 yards.....regardless of my load. You don't even need to be able to add 2+2 to use it.......Like I said, just trying to clear up the gross amount of misinformation in this thread......
It seems everyone does it their own way and no one particular method is the ONE and ONLY method to do it. I do not use mil dots but rather secondary reticle lines called hash marks or subtension lines. These I find are much more accurate for me. I practice a lot, spending more money on bullets, powder and primers than I should and it causes my wife a great amount of grief! I am certainly not the best shooter out there, but I have practiced this to the point where it is second nature to me and I am accurate enough at range estimation that if I don't miss the wind call or make a bad shot, I can put it in the vitals evey time.
I can't be bothered with FFP. It's like you say, at low magnifications it's not much good for anything.
I'll only use Second Focal Plane scopes in MRAD. MOA is for the birds in my opinion - archaic might be a more apt description.
My Viper PST MRAD SFP scope has preset magnification levels where the reticle sub-tension marks have values of 1 MRAD,
2 MRAD, 3 MRAD, or 4 MRAD depending on which magnification you select and it's the cat's meow for range estimating. Maybe where
the scope has a very complex, crowded reticle it might be useful to have an FFP scope, but having one with a large variable magnification
range still wouldn't make much sense to me.
I'll only use Second Focal Plane scopes in MRAD. MOA is for the birds in my opinion - archaic might be a more apt description.
My Viper PST MRAD SFP scope has preset magnification levels where the reticle sub-tension marks have values of 1 MRAD,
2 MRAD, 3 MRAD, or 4 MRAD depending on which magnification you select and it's the cat's meow for range estimating. Maybe where
the scope has a very complex, crowded reticle it might be useful to have an FFP scope, but having one with a large variable magnification
range still wouldn't make much sense to me.
My #4 reticle in my FFP is not what I would call crowded, but I have never had a reticle that stands out and can be seen better in low light. It is better than any SFP scope I have ever seen or used.
My leupolds and sfp zeiss are ok, my FFP Schmidt is way better in low light, for my eyes anyways.
My leupolds and sfp zeiss are ok, my FFP Schmidt is way better in low light, for my eyes anyways.
I still can't get my head around 1moa crosshairs. Sheephunter you seem to be advocating the same method that Zeiss advertise for their z-1000 style reticles. I looked at that system and was not overly impressed. They use a BDC reticle for .308 and then tell you to use x18.6 power for a close match to .300winmag.
I saw two issues with this. The BDC is only closeish and that was only true if you got the magnification factor perfect. The reticle it self would have been perfect on a 308 in the FFP. The Zeiss model seemed geared up to sell more scopes to more gun owners despite obvious limitations.
My favourite reticle that I use is the G2DMR in FFP. I just have my bullet drop inside my reticle cover. If I have time I can just dial in the fractions of a mil using the dials. 3.6 mil = 3 mil down 6 clicks on dial. I don't worry about a magnification, I just use what I need and the conditions allow.
However, I can see how FFP may be a handicap for ultra long range precision shooting.
I saw two issues with this. The BDC is only closeish and that was only true if you got the magnification factor perfect. The reticle it self would have been perfect on a 308 in the FFP. The Zeiss model seemed geared up to sell more scopes to more gun owners despite obvious limitations.
My favourite reticle that I use is the G2DMR in FFP. I just have my bullet drop inside my reticle cover. If I have time I can just dial in the fractions of a mil using the dials. 3.6 mil = 3 mil down 6 clicks on dial. I don't worry about a magnification, I just use what I need and the conditions allow.
However, I can see how FFP may be a handicap for ultra long range precision shooting.
