2014 Western Canada F-Class Championships

Hi Duce, all of us shooting F Class pay the Home PRA annual membership. They are all a bit different price wise but having said that, normally that's all you'd pay except a token 25 bucks or so for match fee's on the day depending on the province you're shooting in. With a PRA membership you can shoot at any of the other PRA Owned facilities. Provinces that are still beholden to the CAF, in addition to the PRA membership, DCRA membership is mandatory. The cheapest is the 40 buck associate and you're good to go Nationally, any range, any event, any province.
The APRA has what's called a "Shoot Card". I think it's 140. You can shoot all the matches for the year including the Provincials, without spending another dime for fee's. Remember, we all have to spend the money every year. Any of the opportunities for travel to High Profile events then get paid for. So if you get around a bit, go south or east you can see the expenses will probably impact wifey's shoe budget, like it or not.
With regard to the Westerns, when the APRA hosted, myself and most of the others on our Match Commitee donated prize table equipment in addition to paying the Match Fee. It's all about providing a top drawer event with a prize table brass draw that gives everyone a shot (by the brass draw) at some truly pricey items, no matter what your score. As all the other Match Directors will attest, no one can ever get rich running the Westerns. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Glen
 
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Okay I want you guys to stop talking about insurance!!! or I'll go OFF on my rant!! about how we should insure the insured so the insurers can insure the insurers who might insure the uninsured Oops!! I almost started.
I have so much liability insurance I'm sure I would be covered if somebody got hurt while I was holding up a bank!! :>))
 
thanks glen. there's no issue with the fees for the match, obviously it has to pay for itself, and if a host club put a few bucks in the bank, that's great.
the great majority of shooters belong to a gun club of some sort, at which point they are covered by nfa insurance with their membership fee, as imposed by the societies act.
getting a dcra associate membership do hang out a dnd range is not a big deal, the government works in mysterious ways.
i think what guys are wondering about is the need to to join a p.r.a. in alberta, sask, or manitoba to shoot in b.c.
people are curious as to what these associations kick in to the western's, from another province. if 50 people from alberta pay the $100 fee to join the apra, how much of that $5000 goes to the prize table or paying for the hard costs and labor at the western's?
i have a freind planning to shoot the western's this year that is waiting to start load development on his new rifle, that has not shot an f-class match yet. it has been suggested in a previous post that there are lots of shooting oppertunities besides the 'high profile western's' for a new shooter to compete at.
the feeling that i got from this post is that new guys should stay away from big events, and 'pay their dues' at lesser events if they question the cost involved shooting at a major event. it came across as snobbery, like some old boys didn't want newbies at 'high end event'.
with a little help from the weather, we will have a few months to get things working for him, and i'm sure he and his wife will have a nice get away and he'll learn a pile at the shoot, as will i.
in regard to a big prize table, can't wait to see what all is on the line. i've been watching pretty closely to the info surrounding this shoot and others; i haven't seen any contact info regarding who to get a hold of if a person wanted to donate some prizes, or is that on a need to know basis?
looking forward to the shoot, my check will be in the mail this week, lee
 
You should join the PRA in your province (support the local group) or you can join the DCRA with a full membership ($130) and shoot at any PRA/DCRA you want, but you will have to pay your match fees still for the event(s) you attend. Most PRAs only require you to show up for a match or training session at their range, buy a membership with them, and you can then get your feet wet and learn the ropes before you pay for a big expensive event. Usually best to get your feet wet at a local match first, so you know what you are doing.

The contact person for the Western's this year, as in any year, would be the match director. This year in BC it is SteveB and you can contact him via a private msg thru this site. Not sure who all in BC is helping him with it, but if you want to donate a prize to the table, SteveB would make sure it was on the table.

Regarding new shooters in big events, the issue becomes if you get someone that is new and not on paper or all over the paper, the target service slows down to a crawl and the competitive guy can get pissed at you because of that service. You should know the DCRA rules as well and how to score the other guys score card, the order of firing, etc. There is also a DCRA rule that if a shooter misses four consecutive shots (including sighters) ... he is to stand down and the other competitors on his target finish firing and then he gets no more time or extra shots to finish his firing.
DCRA rule are at.. http://www.dcra.ca/rulebooks/Rule%20Book%20-%20complete%20for%20website%20May%202012.pdf

There is no requirement for a PRA to "kick in" to support the Western or the Eastern Regional matches and the money for memberships stay with the PRA collecting it.
Yes, some PRA members from other PRAs not hosting the event sometimes "kick in" a prize or two for the prize table, but there is no cash on the table.

Plus, if you name is drawn and you get something nice from the table, do not try to sell it there to others in front of the supplier! This can piss off the supplier and next year he may not donate anything to the prize table.
Prizes are nice and a bonus, but you do and can get guys that come for the prizes only and you never see them again on any PRA firing lines.

Yes, all shooters are welcome, even at the big events, you have to start somewhere.

BTW, the SPRA was a special on for first time new members, we are only charging $5 for a full membership to Saskatchewan residents, in their first year with the club. This is bring more shooters out and into our sport.
Regular non first year memberships are only $50 at the SPRA. Other PRAs have different fees and depending if the range is on DND lands, etc.
 
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duceman said:
thanks glen. there's no issue with the fees for the match, obviously it has to pay for itself, and if a host club put a few bucks in the bank, that's great.
the great majority of shooters belong to a gun club of some sort, at which point they are covered by nfa insurance with their membership fee, as imposed by the societies act.
getting a dcra associate membership do hang out a dnd range is not a big deal, the government works in mysterious ways.
i think what guys are wondering about is the need to to join a p.r.a. in alberta, sask, or manitoba to shoot in b.c.
people are curious as to what these associations kick in to the western's, from another province. if 50 people from alberta pay the $100 fee to join the apra, how much of that $5000 goes to the prize table or paying for the hard costs and labor at the western's?
i have a freind planning to shoot the western's this year that is waiting to start load development on his new rifle, that has not shot an f-class match yet. it has been suggested in a previous post that there are lots of shooting oppertunities besides the 'high profile western's' for a new shooter to compete at.
the feeling that i got from this post is that new guys should stay away from big events, and 'pay their dues' at lesser events if they question the cost involved shooting at a major event. it came across as snobbery, like some old boys didn't want newbies at 'high end event'.
with a little help from the weather, we will have a few months to get things working for him, and i'm sure he and his wife will have a nice get away and he'll learn a pile at the shoot, as will i.
in regard to a big prize table, can't wait to see what all is on the line. i've been watching pretty closely to the info surrounding this shoot and others; i haven't seen any contact info regarding who to get a hold of if a person wanted to donate some prizes, or is that on a need to know basis?
looking forward to the shoot, my check will be in the mail this week, lee
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There's no "snobbery" here, and that's certainly not the intention. There is also no "old boys club" either. I was just saying that we constantly here complaints by new comers, about the high cost of the regional championships. The worst part is that excuse gets over used to not attend any F Class match. All i'm saying is that there are at least 20 other matches in Western Canada that are not at all expensive, and all are worth attending.
Everyone is welcome to attend any match, whether new or old shooter. There are always veterans ready to lend a hand and share experience to help out a new comer. I have been on the "working" side of this regional match, I know how much it costs, and the amount of work involved. Just show up and enjoy yourself, and if you still think were snobs, so be it!!!
 
Eric, sounds like you getting old and grumpy like me. Take a deep breath and go shoot a cat :)

New Fellas, might I suggest, if your in the nieghborhood, come out to the first "free" Clinic at Homestead May 10, 2014 for a fun day of match format tutorial and shooting at 400m and 800m. Lots of help and one on one with crusty old experienced guys (like Eric) It's one day, no membership required and it's free. Stay over and shoot the one day match on the 11th (Sunday) to put all you've learned into practice. Several New Fellas did this in the recent past and are now not New Fellas anymore. Did I mention the event was Free? There are several "Clinics" throught 2014 per the AFRA Fullbore schedule on the APRA Website. They are all free too. Lots of opportunity to get with the program before the Westerns.
Cheers Glen
 
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highmark said:
I do have a question for past and present Westerns organizers. Is there a reason why the DCRA has sent gift certificates for the Eastern and Western Championship winners, every year since the beginning, yet 2013 they were only sent to the Eastern Championships and the Westerns were left out? I am only asking this now, as I brought it up last year and the question was never answered. Doesn't seem right in my opinion!!
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You'll have to ask the match committee - I had nothing to do with this ... other than taking third!
 
Inspector said:
New Fellas, might I suggest, if your in the nieghborhood, come out to the first "free" Clinic at Homestead May 10, 2014 for a fun day of match format tutorial and shooting at 400m and 800m. Lots of help and one on one with crusty old experienced guys (like Eric) It's one day, no membership required and it's free. Stay over and shoot the one day match on the 11th (Sunday) to put all you've learned into practice. Several New Fellas did this in the recent past and are now not New Fellas anymore. Did I mention the event was Free? There are several "Clinics" throught 2014 per the AFRA Fullbore schedule on the APRA Website. They are all free too. Lots of opportunity to get with the program before the Westerns.Cheers Glen
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Great advice Glen - it served well when we ran the Westerns at Homestead in 2011 - I don't recall any newbies on the line. A lot of new shooters took the time to come out for the orientation day the month prior to learn how to score and how the shooting line operated before shooting the Westerns (and a few were at the awards). Bonus is that when you've shot a match or two under club conditions, the intimidation factor is off and you can actually enjoy the major match, where some of the experienced competitors might now be too focused on the match to provide encouragement, education, and/or feedback to newbies. We're pretty approachable at club matches, but at the higher level matches (Provincials levels and up), there is less patience for those on a steep learning curve. Come on out early and we'll do what we can to make you comfortable on the line when the pressure is off and give you all the feedback, advice or answers to questions that you're willing to take.

For those concerned about the costs, remember that these competitions are being put on by volunteers in an on-going association. If your intent is to shoot one match per year, I agree that this is expensive, but the overriding intent is to bring in new shooters to a growing sport on an on-going basis. There is no profiteering by the PRAs and costs are recovered between the four PRAs rotating the Westerns (welcome BC!). Fullbore shooting (of which F-Class is part of), requires individual PRA membership for local provincial level matches and DCRA membership for the Regional or National matches, where DCRA awards are presented. We're into the fifth year of a highly competitive (and social) Western Regional match and by all accounts it will continue to grow. I hope that those that enjoy competition and the total experience will believe that it is money well spent, because this is not just a fly by night (one-off) backyard shoot - it is recognized nationally as one of the best competitions out there in Canada, with awards by the national governing organization. Put yourself up against the best in Western Canada. I hope to see you there, 'cause it'll be a hoot!
 
Inspector said:
Eric, sounds like you getting old and grumpy like me. Take a deep breath and go shoot a cat :)

New Fellas, might I suggest, if your in the nieghborhood, come out to the first "free" Clinic at Homestead May 10, 2014 for a fun day of match format tutorial and shooting at 400m and 800m. Lots of help and one on one with crusty old experienced guys (like Eric) It's one day, no membership required and it's free. Stay over and shoot the one day match on the 11th (Sunday) to put all you've learned into practice. Several New Fellas did this in the recent past and are now not New Fellas anymore. Did I mention the event was Free? There are several "Clinics" throught 2014 per the AFRA Fullbore schedule on the APRA Website. They are all free too. Lots of opportunity to get with the program before the Westerns.
Cheers Glen
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I know a F-classer and long range shooter in Peace River. He is not a member of APRA and doesn't get down to Homestead much, and he would like to shoot the Westerns at Vokes.

From the APRA Website I determined it will cost him $100 (APRA) $60(AFRA) $100 (Initiation) or $260 just for the privilege to pay the Vokes entry fee and pay to join the DCRA. Can he just join the APRA for $100 and forget the Homestead access as it is not going to be used. He just wants to shoot the Westerns.

NormB
 
The APRA stopped being a sanctioning body for Fullbore and F-Class shooting about 3 years ago. APRA is essentially a range developer and landlord at this point for all the associated Homestead clubs. The AFRA was formed at that time and is the club associated with Fullbore and F-Class at Homestead, and they are also the Stewards of the 900m range. That $100 that goes to the APRA (which all the various clubs and members pay) stays at the APRA and is used for range improvements and upkeep, it does not go to towards any fees or affiliation costs of the DCRA.

Rick
 
NormB said:
I know a F-classer and long range shooter in Peace River. He is not a member of APRA and doesn't get down to Homestead much, and he would like to shoot the Westerns at Vokes.

From the APRA Website I determined it will cost him $100 (APRA) $60(AFRA) $100 (Initiation) or $260 just for the privilege to pay the Vokes entry fee and pay to join the DCRA. Can he just join the APRA for $100 and forget the Homestead access as it is not going to be used. He just wants to shoot the Westerns.

NormB
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Norm,

Tell him to join the BCRA for the year. It will be cheaper for him. I certainly agree the $100 "initiation fee" is an obstacle for new members but it's not negotiable. Even if he does join and pay all the APRA / AFRA fees he will STILL have to buy an associate DCRA membership to shoot the Westerns since the APRA / AFRA does not include any DCRA affiliation fee.
 
prairieguy said:
Norm,

Tell him to join the BCRA for the year. It will be cheaper for him. I certainly agree the $100 "initiation fee" is an obstacle for new members but it's not negotiable. Even if he does join and pay all the APRA / AFRA fees he will STILL have to buy an associate DCRA membership to shoot the Westerns since the APRA / AFRA does not include any DCRA affiliation fee.
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Thanks Prairie guy,

According to BCRA Website only a full DCRA membership will do. An associate one does not give access to these competitions. See below..

Full Membership
includes liability insurance, one year subscription to Canadian Marksman, DCRA voting privileges,
eligibility for DCRA office, eligibility to compete in national competitions and on international teams, national
classification, national representation on shooting matters, and access to military ranges under the aegis of the
BCRA/DCRA.

Associate Membership
includes liability insurance, one year subscription to Canadian Marksman, eligibility for DCRAwinter program,
Black Powder & national Service Conditions ONLY, national representation on shooting matters, and
access to military ranges under the aegis of the BCRA/DCRA

But the good thing is an Alberta resident can join the BCRA and they have a 1/2 off membership deal to the end of march and their Annual competition membership includes a full DCRA membership for $220 (that's $110 at half off)

I'll direct him to the BCRA site.

NormB
 
rpollock said:
The APRA stopped being a sanctioning body for Fullbore and F-Class shooting about 3 years ago. APRA is essentially a range developer and landlord at this point for all the associated Homestead clubs. The AFRA was formed at that time and is the club associated with Fullbore and F-Class at Homestead, and they are also the Stewards of the 900m range. That $100 that goes to the APRA (which all the various clubs and members pay) stays at the APRA and is used for range improvements and upkeep, it does not go to towards any fees or affiliation costs of the DCRA.

Rick
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Thanks Rick,

DCRA membership is contingent on membership in a Provinical Rifle Association only, as I read the DCRA site this is the APRA. Range clubs, AFRA, and operating arrangesments at Homestead are not indicated in any DCRA requirement. To compete a Vokes a DCRA membership has been specified as a requirement and I wondered Since the APRA has a separate fee for membership ($100) that would be a sufficient fee to pay to qualify for DCRA membership just to enter the Vokes Regional match.

It has been pointed out to me ( maybe wrongly,I don't know) that non members of the APRA/AFRA can attend all provincial registered matches/practices at Homestead
by just paying match or daily fees when they want to shoot, avoiding the up front $260 first year membership cost.

NormB
 
Norm,

You misread the BCRA website. The full membership is only required for the National championship at Connaught or to be a member of a national team. Access to DND ranges is covered by the associate membership, read the last sentence under Associate membership.

There is an agreement between the original match director (me) and the DCRA that for sanctioning purposes all a competitor requires is a current PRA membership (any PRA) and an associate DCRA membership. Unless the BCRA is imposing additional requirements that I am not aware of that's all he will need. If the BCRA starts making goofy requirements there's always the SPRA or MPRA. Either or those charge somewhere around $50 for their PRA membership then add the DCRA associate and he's done.
 
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prairieguy said:
Norm,

You misread the BCRA website. The full membership is only required for the National championship at Connaught or to be a member of a national team. Access to DND ranges is covered by the associate membership, read the last sentence under Associate membership.
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You are correct. 2014 BCRA with associate DCRA membership is $57.50 (with half off before March 31/2014). That seems a good bet for eligibility at the Vokes Western Regionals.

NormB
 
NormB said:
Thanks Rick,

DCRA membership is contingent on membership in a Provinical Rifle Association only, as I read the DCRA site this is the APRA. Range clubs, AFRA, and operating arrangesments at Homestead are not indicated in any DCRA requirement. To compete a Vokes a DCRA membership has been specified as a requirement and I wondered Since the APRA has a separate fee for membership ($100) that would be a sufficient fee to pay to qualify for DCRA membership just to enter the Vokes Regional match.

It has been pointed out to me ( maybe wrongly,I don't know) that non members of the APRA/AFRA can attend all provincial registered matches/practices at Homestead
by just paying match or daily fees when they want to shoot, avoiding the up front $260 first year membership cost.

NormB
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Norm, I don't know why the DCRA continues to list the APRA as the PRA repesentative for Alberta when this was terminated 3 years ago. Membership in the APRA garners nothing for the shooters as it pertains to DCRA related memberships or affiliations.

Rick
 
rpollock said:
Norm, I don't know why the DCRA continues to list the APRA as the PRA repesentative for Alberta when this was terminated 3 years ago. Membership in the APRA garners nothing for the shooters as it pertains to DCRA related memberships or affiliations.

Rick
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I don't profess to know the ins and outs. I just saw on the DCRA website that a DCRA membership requires a Provincial Rifle Association membership. I just assumed that in Alberta it would be the Alberta Provincial Rifle Association ( APRA) since it is the exact name that is the relevant body in every other province. eg, BCRA ORA PQRA etc.
My mistake.

NormB
 
Thanks to NormB for his help in clarifying the requirements (cutting through the APRA BS) to participate in this shoot. I was about to give up. Emails to the APRA were a waste of time. Emails to the DCRA were going fine until I mentioned I was from Peace River, AB. I talked to various shooters and was told I needed to join "my PRA" before being allowed an associate DCRA membership. Post #31, #52, and #56 all asked the same question.
Is there a requirement to make participation in these shoots impossible to decipher for new competitors?
 
The answers to your questions are in this thread, jet not all in one place.

Why do you have to pay dues to the DCRA to shoot this match when you already have insurance through your club you ask?

This event is a regional championship sanctioned by the DCRA, which is the governing body of this sport in Canada. There is also a requirement imposed by the Department of National Defense as part of the contract between the DCRA and DND which permits the DCRA to access DND range facilities that any civilian using a DND range for a DCRA event will be a DCRA member with the attendant insurance coverage. DND requires that users have insurance and a DCRA membership. DND will not accept insurance other than that available through the DCRA. The alternative in DND's mind would be to force the match director to verify the insurance of every participant for every match or practice day which is simply not possible. Show your current DCRA membership card and the match director knows you are OK to play.

Translation: General Vokes range is DND property. In order to get access to this range users MUST have a DCRA membership. DND will not budge on this and if we fail to comply they would be entitled to kick us off the range. The least expensive level of DCRA membership is the associate membership. Also, this event is sanctioned with the winner and runners up receiving reductions in match fees at the DCRA national championship should they choose to attend. It is also a "qualifier" for shooters interested in earning a place on the national team to represent Canada at the 2017 F Class world championships.

Let me use an analogy. If you wanted to represent Canada at an international tournament as a member of the Team Canada curling team or at a lesser level, even participate in a provincial championship you would have to be a member of the Canadian Curling Association. Same applies here to the DCRA.

I will concede that the DCRA does not make this easy or simple. The APRA is not affiliated with the DCRA and does not collect DCRA dues since we do not use DCRA insurance at Homestead because it's not a DND range. The DCRA does nor normally sell memberships directly, instead they rely on the PRAs to collect dues from their members on behalf of the DCRA and then remit en mass. Because of the unique situation of the APRA (almost all other PRAs use DND facilities) the DCRA will accept membership applications directly from individuals in Alberta. I cannot explain why you got such run around.
 
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