bclinehand
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Clearwater B.C.
pic has been posted before
1911 tests - enough to make TDC's head explode.
- Thread starter Clobbersauras
- Start date
pic has been posted before
x2..... I got it from this forum, public domain.
And I rest my case.
Am I the only one on here that gets tired of people like TDC giving everyone "Tactical Tips". I don't have the patience that Beltfed has to expose this wanna-be for what he is.
Back to the facts, before someone like TDC starts spouting off about "gun fights" the "real mean streets" (that he has never been on) he should do proper research such as, the US Dept. of Justice stats/data on gun fights, rather than what he thinks or has heard from someone.
Rich
Am I the only one on here that gets tired of people like TDC giving everyone "Tactical Tips". I don't have the patience that Beltfed has to expose this wanna-be for what he is.
Back to the facts, before someone like TDC starts spouting off about "gun fights" the "real mean streets" (that he has never been on) he should do proper research such as, the US Dept. of Justice stats/data on gun fights, rather than what he thinks or has heard from someone.
Rich
Proper research and US Dept. of Justice... WTF?
Right. Water-boarding is not torture according to them.
You aren't meaning the FBI UCR reports are you?
You rest your case? Why? Because you wrote the studies at the DOJ and shared your info here?
What did Westicle's photo and posting prove other than:
a) He has had less training from professional schools than TDC?
b) He cannot win an argument about tactics without making personal attacks?
c) Someone is not wearing armor or a badge in a picture so they must not have any training?
Were you hoping for a picture of Bruce Willis or Arnie?
Whether the pic was posted before or not, I am unimpressed.
I am happy to take it to the parking lot when required, but I thought this was a discussion of tactics and firearms, and though the discussion may have been heated, that is pushing the edge, and is totally unrelated to the thread.
I don't know either Wes or TDC, never met them. But I think it doesn't do much to build unity in the community, or do much to show firearms enthusiasts can have a intelligent fair debate with personally attacking opponents.
"Hey Members. Don't disagree with people here, they will find pictures of you and then photoshop them."
Yep, in another thread I eventually dropped some gf jokes and short bus jokes with robertf recently when he couldn't defend his statements, and started simply saying "I am smarter than you", and calling me "Corky" but that anonymous internet banter between two internet aliases is a lot different than using someone's photoshopped picture when you can't argue an issue.
Just my 2 cents, but that picture has absolutely nothing to the thread or discussion, and is nothing but a cheap shot.
So much for bravery.
Right. Water-boarding is not torture according to them.
You aren't meaning the FBI UCR reports are you?
You rest your case? Why? Because you wrote the studies at the DOJ and shared your info here?
What did Westicle's photo and posting prove other than:
a) He has had less training from professional schools than TDC?
b) He cannot win an argument about tactics without making personal attacks?
c) Someone is not wearing armor or a badge in a picture so they must not have any training?
Were you hoping for a picture of Bruce Willis or Arnie?
Whether the pic was posted before or not, I am unimpressed.
I am happy to take it to the parking lot when required, but I thought this was a discussion of tactics and firearms, and though the discussion may have been heated, that is pushing the edge, and is totally unrelated to the thread.
I don't know either Wes or TDC, never met them. But I think it doesn't do much to build unity in the community, or do much to show firearms enthusiasts can have a intelligent fair debate with personally attacking opponents.
"Hey Members. Don't disagree with people here, they will find pictures of you and then photoshop them."
Yep, in another thread I eventually dropped some gf jokes and short bus jokes with robertf recently when he couldn't defend his statements, and started simply saying "I am smarter than you", and calling me "Corky" but that anonymous internet banter between two internet aliases is a lot different than using someone's photoshopped picture when you can't argue an issue.
Just my 2 cents, but that picture has absolutely nothing to the thread or discussion, and is nothing but a cheap shot.
So much for bravery.
tactics is his second job, right behind flipping burgers at mcdonalds....
so you have attended two courses... good for you, your my hero. I wish I was half the man you pretend to be on the internet.
your the next Jim Cirillo.
Where did I indicate I had taken only two courses?? I said I've trained with two different schools.
Rich,
I've asked you repeatedly to defend your superior training and find fault with what I've posted. You like Westicle and others still have not disputed anything I've posted. To Westicle's credit he did post some of his credentials unlike yourself and others. Bob you listening??
TDC
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With regards to grip swapping, my point was to illustrate the fact that an out of the box 1911 is not necessary setup to be the most concealable firearm. Any changes out of the box means its not an ideal setup. I'm not saying only stock guns are to be compared. I am saying that some guns require aftermarket parts to fit a specific role. Changing parts can increase the risk of failures and increases the cost involved. Thinner grips that offer a slimmer/smaller profile are great and I would suspect anyone would opt for them if the need for the slimmer profile was desired. The dimensional differences you've published are as you said, the frame only. I'm curious as to how thin the 1911 can get with aftermarket grips. With the frame measuring .775 inches I strongly doubt the OD dimension will be anything less than 1" or better with even the slimmest grips. A minor gain in width still does not offset the 8 round magazine capacity, the increased weight, the positive safety and the increased recoil, nor does calibre.
The statistics indicate most fights are over in a short period of time with few rounds fired(I believe its less than 5?). The important part of the statistic is the word MOST. Basing your gear selection on the MAJORITY of a statistic while neglecting the minority is bad planning. Furthermore, no one is afforded the luxury of setting up their situation. Playing the odds in hopes your situation is one of the majority is delusional.
Favorable ballistic performance on gel or any other medium is not a guarantee. No two people will react the same to being shot. Mental state, drug use, and physical condition all play a role. A larger projectile will undoubtably create a larger hole. With that larger calibre comes increased recoil and reduced magazine capacity. A superior performing projectile only helps if you have sufficient quantities available and make the required hits. Having to reload more often or running out of ammunition does not improve performance.
TDC
- Location
- Off the "X"
I have to agree with yyyyy about everything he said. I don't see how a picture of someone will affect an argument regarding his knowledge at all.
And props to TDC for staying on topic afterwards.
And props to TDC for staying on topic afterwards.
Nope!
TDC talks in absolutes. Everything he states is fact based on what he has read in the latest Soldier of Fortune magazine or what he thinks he heard an instructor say.
If you actually use your handgun for the purpose you bought it (Collecting or Sports Shooting), you are a gamer and not worthy.
He on the other hand has stated on this forum all his handguns are set up to kill people. His problem is that in our society such acts are generally frowned upon and in the absence of a revolution (I prefer to change governments by exercising my franchise personally- less messy) he spends his life training "tactics" for no discernable reason and claims he is smarter than those of us who practice to do better at our shooting sports or our occupation.
Go figure.
Take Care
Bob
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Hey, I just honestly asked about TDC's experiences as I felt he really knew what he was talking about, not sure it is very applicable in Canada, but TDC you really speak well on topics like this with a lot of knowledge.
Now for the rest of you, can we get this match under way?
Shooters Ready? Stand by...............! Stop, that's it, your all disqualified........!
Now for the rest of you, can we get this match under way?
Shooters Ready? Stand by...............! Stop, that's it, your all disqualified........!
True, but a Glock of similar vein is even less so.
Good, then you likely agree that there are multitudes of gunsmiths that will build a 1911 to order -'out of the box' can be anything the customer desires, in multitudes of calibers and configurations.
I have to disagree with you on this one. There are so many good manufacturers of 1911s producing a very large array of the model, you can get almost anything from a factory.
Again, you are faulting the design of the 1911 on substandard parts installed in a questionable fashon. I tend to believe in installing quality and having it properly done. Anyone counting on one in a life situation would likely do the same.- this is no different a philosophy than dealing with parts or work on a Glock.
One could make grips out of aluminum to suit 1" overall thickness easily. This may not seem like considerable width, but it matters. Add to that other customizations such as bobbing, and the beauty of the 1911 design starts to shine. (admittedly you can bob a Glock too)
A 'minor' gain in width could mean the difference in 'printing' or not - a massive tactical advantage in alot of situations.
This is the whole premise to CCW and use of pistols in general!!
Dealing with lower statistics differently does not necessarily mean they are totally neglected, and prioritizing items that are more likely to happen is a sound tactic. If accurate and applicable stats show the best 5 are going to count at 2m distance, then emphasizing preparation for this is logical.
If I was getting into the car in the morning knowing full well I was going to get t-boned by the C-Train, I'd take the train to work in the first place.
Likewise with guns - If I knew I was going to get into a gunfight, I'd armor up and carry a carbine.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Ok I may be wrong here as I have no real world experience, but would a person carrying CCW not have the advantage to carry what is good for them, not what a statistic tells them is good for them? A nice 1911, like a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Specia,l is a great concealable gun, as a matter of fact in my opinion is one of the best large autos to conceal and I do not even own one. Base on it's dimensions, it is slim, well balanced and conceals very well in a variety of holsters.
The minor gain by running slim grips is almost negligible. A 1" 1911 OD compared to a 1.17" OD of a Glock is not going to mean the difference between printing and not. Aside from that, the other disadvantages of the heavier, more complex, reduced magazine capacity and increased recoil cannot be overcome with any amount of customization. Another note on the customization. A lot of it can be had from factory which greatly reduces the potential for bad parts or bad installs. However, it is still a custom gun that cannot be had off the shelf or out of the box in a near ideal state. There is nothing on a stock Glock that needs to be changed. Even the factory "box dot" sights are very usable. That being said, night sights are the only real change that most would agree should be made and those are a factory option. The selection of competent gunsmiths in Canada is very limited, as are the choices for parts. Even in a free country, you will still wait to have your gun worked on. Sending a new gun to the smith is a clear sign the user lacks the skill to use it effectively and is attempting to solve a software issue with a hardware solution; or the gun in question is a poor choice. You mention "bobbing" are you referring to the hammer or the beavertail? In either case, having to bob your pistol to reduce its size again illustrates the fact that the pistol isn't a sound choice.
I hear you on prioritizing your gear and/or tactics based on the majority. My question is why neglect the possible but not statistically probable side of the equation? Why run with 8 when you can run with 10/12/15/17 without any substantial gain in size or weight?
TDC
I hear you on prioritizing your gear and/or tactics based on the majority. My question is why neglect the possible but not statistically probable side of the equation? Why run with 8 when you can run with 10/12/15/17 without any substantial gain in size or weight?
TDC
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