1950 303 Longbranch question

Well here's something funny. I just went to look at the non-fired fazakerly I have and guess what number bolthead it has on it! #2!!!! what are the odds of that! Crazy. Anyway, thought I would share that.

Lazy,...... my Faz has a No 2 right out of the factory. As already stated, it would depend on barrel to receiver fit and I'm guessing whether someone at the factory wanted to take another cut of the seat or just put in the head number for correct head space. This would leave us less options I'm guessing for head space correction on just a number change alone, if the rifle is fired alot with ful l power loads.

The No4 expert's should check in on this factory bolt head number 2 , and tell how head space set up standards, were determined at Canadian Arsenals and at ROF, Fazakerly.
 
Now all I need is for someone to explain how to properly check for headspace. I've seen three different gauges out there. Go/no go/ and field. Man would it be nice for someone to go through all three on a video specifically about the enfield. *hint hint*
 
LB nor its successor CA wrapped their production like the Brits. If the rifle went into the Ordenance Depot in Montreal it was lightly coated in cosmoline and wrapped in heavy oil paper (brown on the outside and pinkish on the inside and then a cardboard). Cosmoline on the metal parts and not the wood exterior. On the other hand the Brits lathered cosmoline every and wrapped in a light brown paper.

As far as components...they were "CA" marked. I've suspect that your head was change for tighter headspace. I would have the headspace checked and if OK pick up a Size 2 CA head or go back to Size 1 head if it concerns you. I've seen both blued body and bright body bolts in 1950's.

Post a picture or 2 of your rifle and we can tell you more.

Thanks for the reply rgg7.

I don't think a few LB parts being mixed in with CA parts is that uncommon. Not considering the truck loads of parts they had left over from unassembled wartime stocks.
 
Is there still some life to the gun if I ever decide to shoot it? I know the #2 bolt head means there aren't many options left except a #3. Hopefully this one ins't a buggered one. Unfortunately I do not have a photo bucket or likewise account so I can't post right now. Thanks for all the info everyone. REALLY appreciate it.


As long as it all looks good, go ahead and shoot some reloadable ammo out of it. Set it aside for that particular rifle as it has been fireformed to the chamber. That means the shoulder has been pushed forward so the base of the cartridge will be very close to the boltface.

When you reload, neck resize only and all should be well. It should greatly extend your case life as well.

If you are truly worried, take it to a smith and have him look at it.
 
Actually, it's been years, so I just had a look at the pics at the one in the Knowledge Library and then went and got the gun out of the safe to handle it in person.

The bolt is blackened (blued?) like the rest of the parts. It's marked CA and #1. The camera flash creates an odd looking reddishness which isn't there in natural light when you examine the bolt. It looks blued under those conditions, exactly the same as the rest of the bolt, bolt handle and receiver.

Knowledge Library entry for 1950 C No.4 Mk1* Long Branch Rifle (94 pic photo montage)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=148-1950-C-No.4-Mk1*-Long-Branch-Rifle
"All Matching Serial Numbers (unissued rifle)"

(Click to Enlarge)(Click to Enlarge)

Regards,
Doug
 
Now all I need is for someone to explain how to properly check for headspace. I've seen three different gauges out there. Go/no go/ and field. Man would it be nice for someone to go through all three on a video specifically about the enfield. *hint hint*

Remove the extractor from your bolthead.
If the bolt cams fully closed on the go gauge that is good.
If the bolt cams fully closed on the no go, the bolt is too short.
If the bolt has not fully cammed closed on the no go, your headspace is good(any resistance is good)- if you also passed on the go gauge.
 
A gentleman by the user name of Alan de Enfield did a survey of bolthead lengths that he kindly posted on the milsurps Lee-Enfield forum (great job, Alan), and found that there was some overlap in measured lengths when comparing sizes 0, 1, 2 and 3. The longest #0 bolt head in his initial survey was 0.004" longer than the shortest #3 bolthead. He has, by now, measured about 200 boltheads. In other words, it may not be a good idea to go by the bolt head number, but actually measure the length of it with a vernier before trying different boltheads.
 
When exchanging/fitting boltheads you need to pay attention to how the bolthead indexes or "times" in relation to the right bolt lug when screwed up tight on the bolt. The lug on the bolthead must at least be flush with the right bolt lug. It must not over-turn the bolt lug by more than 16 degrees. It normally requires trial fitting a number of boltheads of the same numerical length before you find one that indexes correctly on the bolt body. And yes, there can be considerable variations among boltheads with the same numerical length.
 
A gentleman by the user name of Alan de Enfield did a survey of bolthead lengths that he kindly posted on the milsurps Lee-Enfield forum (great job, Alan), and found that there was some overlap in measured lengths when comparing sizes 0, 1, 2 and 3. The longest #0 bolt head in his initial survey was 0.004" longer than the shortest #3 bolthead. He has, by now, measured about 200 boltheads. In other words, it may not be a good idea to go by the bolt head number, but actually measure the length of it with a vernier before trying different boltheads.

So in other words, a newly fitted barrel to a receiver, might be fitted with whatever bolt head that is required for correct headspace, without the armourer having to re-cut barrel face and set it back on a new build.

Like my original posting, what criteria would determine the intial set?

In a perfect world, I'd see someone cutting the barrel for timing and as tight as possible for the initial new rifle. This would allow wear to be corrected by amourers merely by installing a higher number.

Where do you draw the line on time required for this process to allow for future headspace conditions, against just fitting whatever bolt head spaces properly against the first barrel timing/torquing?

I'm not sure my hypothetical question is making sense here.

In lazy's No4 with #2 bolt, and mine, I'm saying this is what made the proper fit intially in Faz and the person fitting the barrel, didn't take the time to recut barrel face to allow for the fitting of say a #0 . Is this logical assumption for a #2 on a new rifle?
In normal wear and tear, once we progress one bolt number higher in repeated firing's, there's nowhere to go only a recut on the barrel face for one additional tightening turn to torque, correct??:confused:
 
Last edited:
Here's the bolt. You can see it's grey park'd. it's in the 92L series of serial numbers. Does this mean it's been FTR?!?! I'm kind of freaking out a little. There are 0 import marks on the entire gun. Any help would be amazing. If you need cleaner pics, let me know.

http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/r526/lazysod303/

A 1950 CNo4MkI* would be blued if in the earlier production, and many 92L's were blued. After the bluing ended, they went to the green parkerized look. Seems from 93L and up.
The later 55's and 56's seem to be more in either black park or grey park like on the FNC1.

Please don't worry too much about your rifle. If it smoothly chambers ammo then you are very unlikely to have any issues with it at all and you will never shoot it enough to wear it out! They last practically forever.

Don't lose any sleep over the No 2 bolt head. As others said, there are brand new rifles that had them right from new.
 
What I'm worried about is that I payed for a brand new Canadian Longbranch and didn't get what I payed for. I don't want to shoot it as I am saving it for my boy, but I wanted to tell him that I have an original 1950 NEW longbranch enfield. I even have the lined wax paper it came in. Starting to feel sick.
 
Just got an email from skennerton saying that it could have been park'd later on and stored away. If it is still new, it doesn't effect the value. Does anyone else have a 92L0 that is park'd. Do you know any history on this line of rifles?

RL
 
Just got an email from skennerton saying that it could have been park'd later on and stored away. If it is still new, it doesn't effect the value. Does anyone else have a 92L0 that is park'd. Do you know any history on this line of rifles?

RL

There are dozens (hundreds?) of people on CGN that either own or have owned 1950 Long Branch rifles. We've seen more of them than most anyone else, anywhere in the world.
The one pic I saw of your rifle showed really new looking wood. Is the stock and forend CA marked? Are the bands CA marked?
 
Everything on it, the bands, the buttstock, the receiver are all CA marked. BTW, I really appreciate the help. Starting to not feel like puking as much. I could take more pics if it helps.
 
Everything on it, the bands, the buttstock, the receiver are all CA marked. BTW, I really appreciate the help. Starting to not feel like puking as much. I could take more pics if it helps.

Sure, the more pics the better. Try to post full size ones if you can, with clear closeups.

No need to drive the porcelain bus...:)
 
Lazysod, just curious- how much did you pay for the rifle?

I have 2 1950 Long Branch No4's. One hasnt been fired since it left the factory, and the other appears to have been unissued as well but has seen some light use. The biggest difference between the rifles is the wood. The used rifle has very smooth wood from handling, and the unused rifle has very distinctly textured wood.

Speaking of feeling sick...

Not long ago I took my stainless Kimber 1911 to a "gunsmith" to have the front sight upgraded. He took the slide back into his shop and out of sight. For about 10 minutes I head what sounded like a railroad spike being driven in. Out he came with a damaged slide. There were hammer strikes on the edge of the dovetail cut, and the area around it had been roughed up (it looked sandblasted). The new front sight was crooked and the base was peened on one side.

IMAGINE HOW SICK I FELT!

In the end I sent the pistol up to Armco for a tune-up, NEW sights and a refinish on the slide (re-beedblasted and sides draw polished). Gunnar did a FANTASTIC job with everything, and now I dont care about the abuse that had been done.

Long story short- Dont worry about a bolt head!
 
Holy! Yeh, I would have freaked out for sure. Well, *sigh* here is the link to the gun I bought.

http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/r526/lazysod303/

I'm not so worried about the bolt anymore. I'm more worried about the fact that it's parkerized and it's a 92L serial. Skennerton is saying it doesn't effect the value as long as it hasn't been shot since leaving the factory. I think it's an amazing looking rifle fantastic looking shape. I want to apologize to everyone viewing this thread. I'm totally freaking out about this as I don't buy a lot of guns, but I really want a good one for my boy. (yes, I know, I should get him a T marked enfield, I just don't have the cash) Anyway, thank you for being gracious about this all and I still welcome any feedback you can give me.
 
Back
Top Bottom